How can I find the maximum KE of the photoelectrons?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem related to the photoelectric effect, specifically focusing on finding the maximum kinetic energy (KE) of photoelectrons. Participants reference the photoelectric equation and the relationship between photon energy and electron kinetic energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relevance of the equations E=hf and the photoelectric equation hf = work function + 1/2mv^2 in determining kinetic energy. There is uncertainty about which equation to apply and how to interpret the energy of photons versus the kinetic energy of electrons.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications regarding the nature of photon energy and its distinction from kinetic energy. There is ongoing exploration of how to apply the photoelectric equation to the specific problem, with some participants questioning how energy levels relate to the equations being discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants express confusion about integrating the photoelectric equation with energy levels mentioned in the problem, indicating a need for further clarification on the relationship between these concepts.

sodnaz

Homework Statement


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I don't know how to do Question 2 part C.

Homework Equations


I know that E=hf and I know the photoelectric equation: hf = work function + 1/2mv^2

The Attempt at a Solution


I honestly don't have a clue how to do part c of question 2. I think it involves one of the two equations I said above, but I'm not sure which one it would be and why. Could someone help me please?

Thank you
 
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You are looking for kinetic energy, so which of the equations you posted looks more promising?
 
kuruman said:
You are looking for kinetic energy, so which of the equations you posted looks more promising?
I'm not sure, since they would both be kinetic energy wouldn't they (since for E=hf, the photons have kinetic energy since they are moving)? Or is the first one (E=hf) not for kinetic energy?
 
Photons have energy and momentum but zero mass. Their energy is E = hf and their momentum is p = hf/c. Besides, you are asked to find the kinetic energy of the electrons and that's KE = ½mv2.
 
kuruman said:
Photons have energy and momentum but zero mass. Their energy is E = hf and their momentum is p = hf/c. Besides, you are asked to find the kinetic energy of the electrons and that's KE = ½mv2.
But since the photons are traveling through the air, their energy must be kinetic energy, right? I know I need to find the KE of the photoelectrons but I'm asking about normal photon energy here, the incident photons.
 
sodnaz said:
But since the photons are traveling through the air, their energy must be kinetic energy, right?
Photons have only one kind of energy and that's hf. All photons have zero mass and travel at the speed of light in vacuum. Thus, it doesn't make sense to talk about their kinetic energy ½mv2. That's why we do not attach the qualifier "kinetic" to the photon energy.

In any case, do you understand what the photoelectric equation says? Can you explain it in simple terms? Understanding that should help you figure out how to answer the question.
 
kuruman said:
Photons have only one kind of energy and that's hf. All photons have zero mass and travel at the speed of light in vacuum. Thus, it doesn't make sense to talk about their kinetic energy ½mv2. That's why we do not attach the qualifier "kinetic" to the photon energy.

In any case, do you understand what the photoelectric equation says? Can you explain it in simple terms? Understanding that should help you figure out how to answer the question.

Ah, that explains the question regarding the KE, thank you.

I know that the photoelectric equation basically says, a photon of energy hf has to overcome the work function in order to release a photoelectron, and any "spare energy" left over (given by KE=hf-work function) is KE of the photoelectron.

I don't know how I use that equation with part c though. Do I just say that the KE = hf - work function? If it's that easy, how would you integrate it with those energy levels shown just below the question? How do they come into these equations?
 
sodnaz said:
Do I just say that the KE = hf - work function?
You just say that. Think of the electron as absorbing all of the photon's energy. It uses some of the energy (equal to the work function) to pay the metal for its freedom. Any energy that's left after the electron leaves the surface, is kinetic energy that it spends however the circumstances dictate.
sodnaz said:
If it's that easy, how would you integrate it with those energy levels shown just below the question? How do they come into these equations?
It's that easy, but unrelated to the energy levels. That part of the question has to do with photon (not electron) emission by a single atom. The energy of the emitted photon must match the energy difference between levels.
 
kuruman said:
You just say that. Think of the electron as absorbing all of the photon's energy. It uses some of the energy (equal to the work function) to pay the metal for its freedom. Any energy that's left after the electron leaves the surface, is kinetic energy that it spends however the circumstances dictate.

It's that easy, but unrelated to the energy levels. That part of the question has to do with photon (not electron) emission by a single atom. The energy of the emitted photon must match the energy difference between levels.
For question 3a: So if the energy of the emitted photon matches the energy differnece, and change in E = hf, then to find the frequency it would be change in energy/planck's constant, aka delta E/h = f? Then I use that value of f in E=hf?
 
  • #10
sodnaz said:
... then to find the frequency it would be change in energy/planck's constant, aka delta E/h = f?
Yes.
sodnaz said:
Then I use that value of f in E=hf?
No reason to do that. You already know that the energy of the photon is the energy difference between levels. You will be going around a circle if you did that.
 

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