How can we transform a Lagrangian to obtain a new set of equations of motion?

In summary, the conversation discussed the Lagrangian and equations of motion derived from it. It was mentioned that a new set of equations can be obtained by taking linear combinations, but this cannot be achieved by a gauge transformation of the Lagrangian. A specific example was given to illustrate this, and a question was raised about how to define a transformation that would address this issue. The expert suggests a transformation involving a quadratic form, which would result in the same equations of motion.
  • #1
arpon
235
16
Consider a Lagrangian:
\begin{equation}
\mathcal{L} = \mathcal{L}(q_1\, \dots\, q_n, \dot{q}_1\, \dots\, \dot{q}_n,t)
\end{equation}
From this Lagrangian, we get a set of ##n## equations:
\begin{equation}
\frac{d}{dt}\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \dot{q}_i} - \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial q_i} = 0;~~~~[i = 1,\dots ,n]
\end{equation}
By taking linear combinations of the set of ##n## equations, we can obtain a new set of ##n## equations. And this new set of equations describe the same physical system.
The new set of equations CANNOT be obtained by the Gauge transformation of Lagrangian:
\begin{equation}
\mathcal{L} \rightarrow \mathcal{L} + \frac{dF}{dt},~~~~\text{[$F$ is any arbitrary function]}
\end{equation}
But there exists some other Lagrangian which gives the new set of equations of motion. The following example will make this clear.
Consider the Lagrangian :
\begin{equation}
\mathcal{L} = \frac{m}{2}(a\dot{x}^2 + 2b\dot{x}\dot{y}+c\dot{y}^2) - \frac{k}{2}(ax^2+2bxy+cy^2),~~~~~[b^2 - ac \neq 0]
\end{equation}
By applying Euler-Lagrange equation, we obtain the equations of motion:
\begin{align}
m(a\ddot{x} + b \ddot{y}) &= -k(ax+by)\\
m(b\ddot{x} + c \ddot{y}) &= -k(bx+cy)
\end{align}
By taking linear combinations of these two equations, we can obtain a new set of equations of motion:
\begin{align}
m\ddot{x} &= -kx\\
m\ddot{y} &= -ky
\end{align}
Clearly this system can be described by the new Lagrangian :
\begin{equation}
\mathcal{L}'=\frac{1}{2}m(\dot{x}^2+\dot{y}^2) - \frac{1}{2}k(x^2 + y^2)
\end{equation}
But there exists no transformation of this form:
$$\mathcal{L} \rightarrow \mathcal{L} + \frac{dF}{dt}$$
which will give the new Lagrangian ##\mathcal{L}'##.
I also tried the point transformation :
\begin{align}
x &= cu - bv\\
y&=-bu+av
\end{align}
Then the Lagrangian becomes:
\begin{equation}
\mathcal{L}(u,v,\dot{u},\dot{v},t) = \frac{1}{2}m(ac-b^2)(c\dot{u}^2 - 2b\dot{u}\dot{v} +a\dot{v}^2) - \frac{1}{2}k(ac-b^2)(cu^2 - 2buv +av^2)
\end{equation}
And the equations of motion obtained are :
\begin{align}
m(c\ddot{u} - b\ddot{v}) &= -k(cu-bv)\\
m(-b\ddot{u} +a\ddot{v}) &= -k(-bu+av)
\end{align}
Now substituting functions of ##x## and ##y## for ##u## and ##v## [using equation (10) and (11)], we can obtain equation (7) and (8).
Now let us execute the above mentioned point transformation on the Lagrangian defined by equation (9). We obtain:
\begin{equation}
\begin{split}
\mathcal{L}' = \frac{1}{2} m\big[(c^2+b^2)\dot{u}^2 &- 2b(c+a)\dot{u}\dot{v} +(a^2+b^2)\dot{v}^2\big] \\
& -\frac{1}{2}k\left[(c^2+b^2)u^2 - 2b(c+a)uv +(a^2+b^2)v^2\right]
\end{split}
\end{equation}
It is easy to check that the equations of motion obtained for this new Lagrangian are not exactly the same as equation (12) and (13).
So there exists no gauge transformation between the Lagrangian of equation (12) and (15).
How can we define a transformation which will take care of this?
 
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  • #2
I think something is wrong with cross term.
For an example Lagrangean
[tex]L=\frac{m}{2}\dot{x}\dot{y}-\frac{k}{2}xy[/tex]
gives (7) and (8) by applying Lagrange equation. I am afraid action integral coming from this L does not have stationary value. (4) contains this term.
 
Last edited:
  • #3
From the EoM I'd guess that a transformation of the kind
$$x'=a x+ b y, \quad y'=bx + cy$$
does the job.

You can also diagonalize the quadratic form in the Lagrangian. The point is that in this case they are the same for the kinetic and the potential energy in the Lagrangian.
 

1. What is the definition of "transformation of Lagrangian"?

The transformation of Lagrangian refers to the mathematical technique used to describe the change in a physical system over time, taking into account the system's kinetic and potential energies.

2. Why is the transformation of Lagrangian important in physics and engineering?

The transformation of Lagrangian is important because it provides a systematic and efficient way to analyze complex physical systems. It allows us to understand the behavior and evolution of a system without having to solve complicated differential equations.

3. What is the difference between the transformation of Lagrangian and the transformation of coordinates?

The transformation of Lagrangian deals with the transformation of the equations of motion for a system, whereas the transformation of coordinates deals with the change in reference frame or coordinate system used to describe the system. Both are important in understanding the dynamics of a physical system.

4. How is the transformation of Lagrangian related to the principle of least action?

The transformation of Lagrangian is closely related to the principle of least action, which states that the path a system takes from one state to another is the one that minimizes the action, or the integral of the Lagrangian. The transformation of Lagrangian helps us to determine the equations of motion that satisfy this principle.

5. Are there any limitations or assumptions associated with the transformation of Lagrangian?

Yes, the transformation of Lagrangian assumes that the system is conservative, meaning that the total energy of the system is conserved. It also assumes that the system can be described using generalized coordinates and that the system is in equilibrium. These assumptions may not hold for all systems, and in these cases, other mathematical techniques may be needed to analyze the system.

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