How difficult is it to be accepted into grad school in Europe without a BSc?

[askingquestionst]

Hello,
I know there are countless threads asking if you can go to grad school in Physics with an Engineering degree, and I know that the answer depends on my score on the GRE. I am not asking this.

What I want to ask is: supposing I have a good GRE score but am coming from Engineering, can I get into a GOOD grad school?

Reasoning: I am absolutely torn between Electrical Engineering in the Aerospace Industry and Physics. Like 100% torn, I just can't decide. It has tormented me for the entire year and I don't know.
I think I will go with EE, but I am deeply afraid of regretting this choice. I am not in the US so changing programs is NOT possible. I know some people will tell me that Physics will keep the door to engineering open later but I am in a very specific situation that would take too long to explain, and I can say that this is not the case for me.

I am soon to be 21 already so I am double afraid of making the wrong choice, because I know the market for Physicists is incredibly competitive and tenure is not likely. I think if I change my mind later I could be too old to compete in the academic job market.

Why does the school need to be GOOD? Because I have seen several people say that the academic market is so saturated and competitive that I won't have a chance if I am not coming from a Top 10 PhD program.

I know I could get accepted into some program, but since so many people said that for me to have a shot in the academic market I need to come from a top institution, I am afraid I won't be able to get in there coming from a different background.

 

[Dale]

Like 100% torn, I just can't decide.

Flip a coin for it. Write back with the result of the flip and how that makes you feel.

 

[askingquestionst]

Flip a coin for it. Write back with the result of the flip and how that makes you feel.

Surprisingly I have done this already. The result depends on the day.

 

[Dale]

Then it really doesn’t matter either way. I mean it matters even less than the usual decisions that don’t matter either way. You will be just as happy or just as miserable either way.

 

[askingquestionst]

Then it really doesn’t matter either way. I mean it matters even less than the usual decisions that don’t matter either way. You will be just as happy or just as miserable either way.

I mean I don't know what to choose because I don't have the necessary experiences in either to know. Half a decade from now when I have more experience in either option I may realize that the other was indeed the correct one. Then I will live in regret until I die. This is why it is a tough choice.

 

[Dale]

when I have more experience in either option I may realize that the other was indeed the correct one.

There is no correct or incorrect here. This is purely personal preference, and since you have no preference the choice does not make any difference.

If you are the sort of person who would get an Engineering degree and later look back and realize that Physics was correct, then you are also the sort of person who would get a Physics degree and later look back and realize that Engineering was correct. The choice now makes no difference.

 

[symbolipoint]

askingquestionst,
Think for now and the nearer future, what choice would be PRACTICAL? Choose Engineering and earn an undergraduate degree in Engineering. Finding employment is what I mean in "practical".

 

[hutchphd]

I mean I don't know what to choose because I don't have the necessary experiences in either to know. Half a decade from now when I have more experience in either option I may realize that the other was indeed the correct one. Then I will live in regret until I die. This is why it is a tough choice.

I am willing to bet that either choice will lead to a career filled with great joy and also monumental frustration. I can also see that with either choice you will likely have a frustrating period and look back and say "if only I had chosen (the other thing)". This is clearly almost never useful (nor is the prospective anxiety)

1. Be humbly thankful for the choices you have been afforded.
2. Repeat (1)
3. Make your best reasoned decision.
4. Then do not perseverate.

 

[Jarvis323]

A good school will earn you some points, but I think that the competitiveness in academia is mostly about publications. It's also important who your advisor is. I would do a lot of research into which professors you might like to work. Usually some of them will be advertising on their pages that they are looking for students, and will even say what kind of students they are looking for. When you apply to a PhD program, usually it's the professors who pick you because they might want to work with you. If you are applying specifically to work with certain professors, and you have the type of qualifications they are looking for, your chance can be a lot better. And you might want to prepare for the type of work you want to do in advance. Some of the more well known/successful Professors might expect you to have already published, or have done some sort of research related to what they are doing already. You also might find some newer/younger professors that are in an exciting new niche area that also makes it easy for them to get funding, and they might be recruiting more heavily.

Also, if you want to do a PhD, then again I think it might not be so black and white if you should choose engineering or physics, it can depend on the direction you want to go in within those fields, and what opportunities you find.

 

[askingquestionst]

What do you guys think of hobbyist physicists? Not for research of course, but I don't want to stay tied to pop-sci. My greatest joy is learning how the universe works at a fundamental level. Channels like PBS Space Time are great and but I wish I could go more in depth.

How far can you comprehend something without a degree in it?

I know Physics has several fields like Plasma, Condensed Matter, Biophysics. But to be completely honest, I am not attracted to it because of these, just like I am not particularly attracted to a Chemistry degree. I want to know about Cosmology, and Higgs Bosons, and Noether's Theorem. I thought about learning about them in my free time. I don't have to dominate these concepts to the point of acing an exam, but I want to know about them. Hopefully that will satisfy my curiosity.

The thing that really attracted me to Physics was the measurement problem, the wave collapse. I know this is a thing plagued by pop-sci, but I needed to know about it. I just needed to know what it was all about. I had a class at university called Modern Physics in which we went so far as to the Schrodinger Equations, time dependent and independent, in some very basic form. My turnoff was when the professor just gave us the Copenhagen Interpretation, said the "interpretation is left for the reader" and that it is more a Philosophy question than a Physics one, and went on about calculating a trapped electron or whatever. At that point I was really disappointed.

 

[askingquestionst]

By the way, thank you everyone for your life advices. It has been a rough and crazy year for me. Way too many things happened and way too many big decisions had to be taken.

 

[Dale]

What do you guys think of hobbyist physicists?

Well, I am one My degree is biomedical engineering, and I have never regretted my choice. Even though I have an engineering degree I actually teach MRI physics, which is mostly classical, and for more advanced physics I get everything that I want here and with self-study of personally interesting topics. I have never felt like I needed to get an advanced degree specifically in physics in order to enjoy physics.

 

[symbolipoint]

How far can you comprehend something without a degree in it?

@Dale gave his response, and it must undoubtedly be based on his well experienced and educated progress, but the question quoted makes me uncomfortable, and imaginably makes other physics/engineer/science type people uncomfortable also.

 

[askingquestionst]

Well, I am one My degree is biomedical engineering, and I have never regretted my choice. Even though I have an engineering degree I actually teach MRI physics, which is mostly classical, and for more advanced physics I get everything that I want here and with self-study of personally interesting topics. I have never felt like I needed to get an advanced degree specifically in physics in order to enjoy physics.

Thanks a lot! MRI Physics is important do Medical Physics as far as I am aware.

I have settled for Engineering for now. Some time ago someone asked me what I wanted my role in the world to be, and even though I like learning about Physics, I think I want my role to be in the space industry.

I may be wrong and if I am, hopefully I will still be young enough to adjust my path. That's what I was asking in my original post.

 

[Dale]

I have settled for Engineering for now. Some time ago someone asked me what I wanted my role in the world to be, and even though I like learning about Physics, I think I want my role to be in the space industry.

That sounds good. I think that you should feel satisfied about that decision.

I may be wrong

You are not wrong. You cannot be wrong here. This is just a preference and your life can be perfectly fulfilling either way

 

[hutchphd]

I'm with @Dale. Just stay curious...and don't put your self into a particular box just because of a particular degree.

 

[WWGD]

And as general advice ( to anyone in your position), to the extent possible, try to train yourself in areas that will allow you to have a job, however temporary, in case your dream job/ job type does not pan out as quickly as you want, or if it becomes necessary or helpful. Statistics/Data Analysis, Programming, etc.

 

[askingquestionst]

@Dale gave his response, and it must undoubtedly be based on his well experienced and educated progress, but the question quoted makes me uncomfortable, and imaginably makes other physics/engineer/science type people uncomfortable also.

Could you develop your thoughts on this a bit more?