How do fields retain their uniformity with interposing objects?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores how fields, particularly gravitational fields, maintain their integrity and uniformity in the presence of interposing objects. Participants examine the implications of this phenomenon in the context of gravitational and electromagnetic fields, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why interposing objects do not interfere with the gravitational field experienced by Earth from the Sun, suggesting that the field may act as a particle or wave.
  • Another participant states that physics lacks mechanisms and relies on mathematical models, noting that electric fields are uninterrupted by intervening charged particles.
  • A different participant clarifies that static fields are not described by waves or particles, while changing fields may be affected by objects they encounter, mentioning gravitational waves and their expected behavior under gravitational lensing.
  • Terminology is discussed, with a participant correcting the use of "uniformity" to "linearity," explaining that Newtonian gravity is linear and that the total gravitational field is the sum of individual sources without interference.
  • It is noted that while Newtonian gravity and Maxwell's equations are linear, they are approximations to more complex non-linear theories, where the presence of multiple sources can affect field integrity.
  • Another participant emphasizes the distinction between static fields and quantized fields, suggesting that the particle interpretation of fields may not be intuitive and discussing the challenges in localizing particles like photons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of fields and the impact of interposing objects, with no consensus reached on the mechanisms or implications of these interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding, such as the dependence on definitions of linearity and uniformity, and the unresolved nature of gravitational wave detection sensitivity.

Clueless123
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Why don't interposing objects interfere with the integrity of a field's energy between the source and its absorber?

For example, the Sun's gravitational field spreads uniformly through space. If there are interposing objects like Mercury or Venus between the Sun and the Earth, why don't they reduce the amount of gravity that the Earth experiences? The gravitational field may act as a particle or wave (that wraps around the interposing object), but there would be less energy past that point by doing so in either case.

So, if there are a number of interposing objects between the source and target, how does a field retain its integrity and uniformity wrt its inverse square aspect?
 
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In general, there are no mechanisms in physics. Only the appropriate mathematical model. I used the example recently of the electric field being uninterrupted by intervening charged particles.

GR is more sophisticated mathematically than classical EM, but there is still no mechanism to "explain" the Einstein Field equations. Newtonian gravity is physically inexplicable, as Newton himself famously declared.
 
A static field is not described by a wave or a particle. Changing fields can be described by waves or particles (if one has a quantum theory for that field), and may well be affected by objects they encounter. As far as I know we expect gravitational waves to experience gravitational lensing in much the same way EM radiation does. Our gravitational wave detectors are not yet sensitive enough to confirm that, however.
 
Clueless123 said:
the Sun's gravitational field spreads uniformly through space. If there are interposing objects like Mercury or Venus between the Sun and the Earth, why don't they reduce the amount of gravity that the Earth experiences?
Ok, so just a small bit of terminology. The word you are looking for is “linearity”, not “uniformity”.

A uniform field would be a field that is the same everywhere. An inverse-square field is not uniform, it gets weaker the further away you go from the source.

A linear field is one where the total field at a point is simply the sum of the fields from each of the sources. This is the concept you are looking for.

Newtonian gravity is linear. The gravity from 2 sources, say the Sun and Venus, is simply the sum of the gravity from each source alone. Venus does exert its own gravity, but it doesn’t change the influence of the sun.

Maxwell’s equations are also linear, so they exhibit this same feature you are interested in. However, both Maxwell’s equations and Newtonian gravity are approximations to other theories (quantum electrodynamics and general relativity) that are non-linear. So there are scenarios where you cannot treat the fields as linear and the presence of two sources does result in a loss of “integrity” as you described.
 
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Ibix said:
A static field is not described by a wave or a particle. Changing fields can be described by waves or particles (if one has a quantum theory for that field), and may well be affected by objects they encounter. As far as I know we expect gravitational waves to experience gravitational lensing in much the same way EM radiation does. Our gravitational wave detectors are not yet sensitive enough to confirm that, however.
A field is a field. When quantized there are specific states of the quantum fields, which can be interpreted in some sense as "particles". I'd rather talk about "quanta" though, because particularly for the electromagnetic field, a spin-1 massless field, the particle interpretation is pretty far from being a good intuitive picture. There's no way to localize a photon. There's not even a position observable in the usual sense!
 

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