How do light bulbs really work

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mechanisms of light emission in incandescent light bulbs, particularly focusing on the processes involved in incandescence and blackbody radiation. Participants explore theoretical aspects and underlying physics, including the role of temperature and atomic behavior in light emission.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the filament emits light through incandescence due to resistance heating, questioning whether electrons are excited to higher energy levels or if another mechanism is at play.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of blackbody radiation, explaining that the filament releases radiation as it cools, and argues against the idea of discrete wavelengths being emitted as seen in other types of lamps.
  • A different participant confirms the high temperatures of the filament, around 3,000 to 5,000K, and mentions the vacuum environment preventing the bulb from breaking.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the actual mechanism of blackbody emission, suggesting that it is a significant question in the context of quantum theory.
  • Another participant elaborates on the relationship between temperature and kinetic energy in blackbody radiation, discussing how photons are emitted as a result of the kinetic energy of oscillating atoms, referencing Einstein's theory and the Planck distribution.
  • The same participant clarifies that Einstein's work predates quantum mechanics and emphasizes that the energy emitted does not necessarily depend on excited orbitals but rather on kinetic energy and discrete energy levels.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of light emission, with some supporting the blackbody radiation explanation while others question the role of excited energy levels. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various theoretical frameworks and historical developments in physics, indicating a complex interplay of ideas without reaching a consensus on the mechanisms involved in light emission from incandescent bulbs.

p.tryon
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I understand that the filament is heated by resistance and glows indandescently. What is the actual mechanism for the emission of light by incandescence? Are the electrons actually excited to higher energy levels or is something else going on?
 
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Blackbody radiation. Filament gets hot. Filament cools down by releasing radiation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbody_radiation

If the electrons were excited to higher energy levels (and then de-excited to emit photons) the light would only be at discrete wavelengths (e.g. in a sodium vapour lamp or a compact fluorescent lamp), and not continuous across multiple wavelengths as it is.
 
To add to that, you might think the filament getting to ~3-5,000K is ridiculous, but that is the case. Light bulbs are under vacuum however, that is why it doesn't blow up or anything :)
 
Thank you for your replies. That is interesting about the vacuum thanks. What is the actual mechanism of black body emission?
 
p.tryon said:
Thank you for your replies. That is interesting about the vacuum thanks. What is the actual mechanism of black body emission?

It's a great question and when it was first considered it kick started quantum theory. May I suggest that you start by googling the black body radiation curves.
 
My understanding, from Einstein's theory using his A and B coefficients, is that heat in a blackbody radiator is manifested in the kinetic energy of the particles, not in excited orbitals. The temperature of a medium is related to the average kinetic energy of the medium's atoms or particles. A photon carries with it a discrete amount of energy/momentum. When a photon strikes an atom, the atom absorbs the momentum and experiences an imparted impulse which moves the atom. These imparted impulses give rise to the kinetic energies that create the heat. So if we have a mass of oscillating/moving atoms, our blackbody radiator at a given temperature T, then they will spontaneously, and under stimulation, radiate some of their kinetic energies as photons. The probabilities at which these radiations occur (both stimulated and spontaneous) give rise to the Planck distribution. When photons are radiated from an atom, then the reverse happens from absorption, the atom loses a discrete amount of energy/momentum equal to the energy of the emitted photon.

EDIT: Should make it clear in light of Division's post that Einstein's derivation was done before Quantum Mechanics described the atomic orbitals. Einstein related the kinetic energy gain from absorption to being countered by a retarding force. This last part here is not necessary to derive the Planck spectrum. So whether the energy that is being emitted is stored in excited orbitals or a kinetic energy of the atom is immaterial, the main assumption was that the energy emitted had to be done in discrete energy levels and the emissions could occur spontaneously or via stimulation.

EDIT EDIT: Wait.. where did Division's post go... :eek: Ninjas! \shiftyeyes
 
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