How do you find frictional force with no mass given?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves determining the force required by the Batmobile's engine to accelerate down an inclined hill, given the angle of the incline and the coefficient of kinetic friction. The challenge arises from the absence of a specified mass for the Batmobile.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of assuming a mass for the Batmobile, with one suggesting to treat mass as an unknown variable. Others explore the relationship between the forces acting on the Batmobile and the equations of motion involved.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the setup of the problem, including suggestions to draw free-body diagrams and apply Newton's second law. There is recognition that multiple unknowns complicate the problem, and some participants express uncertainty about resolving it without knowing the mass.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted discrepancy between the calculated force and the answer provided in the textbook, leading to further questioning of assumptions and the setup of the problem. The discussion reflects a lack of consensus on how to proceed without the mass being defined.

KingPhysics
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Homework Statement


Batman is driving the Batmobile down a hill coming from the Bat Cave. This hill is inclined at an angle of 30 degrees to the horizontal and has a coefficient of kinetic friction of 0.28. What force must the Batmobile's engine apply to cause the Batmobile to accelerate at 0.60g?

a = 0.60g = 0.60(9.8) = 5.88
uk = 0.28


Homework Equations


Fengine = ma + mg sin30 + Ff


The Attempt at a Solution


I tried plugging in what I had into the above equation, assuming that the mass was 0.60, so I got Fengine = (0.6)(5.88) + (0.6)(9.8)sin30 + 1.64 and my answer was 8.1 N as the force applied on the engine. But when I looked at the back of the book, it said that the answer is (3.36)(mass) N. How does that work? I am so confused!
 
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0.6 kg is about the weight of five apples, whereas the Batmobile is the size of a tank. How can you assume that m is 0.6 kg? Just call it "m" and assume it's known.

First, draw a free-body diagram of the Batmobile. Remember to label all forces. Then write Newton's second law for the direction parallel to the ramp and the direction perpendicular to it.
 
I'm also quite interested in this question, i come up with two unknowns and only one equation.
 
I attempted this question, i myself am reviewing for my standardized year-end tests..

though I am not sure it is correct.

i stated that:

F_{engine} = F_{net} + F_F - F_x

Where Fx and Fy are the components of the gravitational force on the object.

After substitution:

F_{engine} = ma + \mu mg \cdot cos\Theta - mg \cdot sin\Theta

Then i took the mass as the common factor:

F_{engine} = m\left( a + \mu g \cdot cos\Theta - g \cdot sin\Theta\right)

And then i solve:
F_{engine} = m\left( (0.60)(9.8) + (0.28)(9.8)(cos(30)) - (9.8)(sin(30))\right)

i end up with F_{engine} = 3.37 \cdot m Newtons

which is as much as i could simplify, i don't think you can fully solve this question without the mass.. am i correct?
 
yes, unless the acceleration could be provided by gravity itself:

i.e sin(a) - u cos(a) = 0.6 Your answer is in agreemnet with that in the book according to the OP.
 

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