How Does Integration by Parts Move from the Second to the Third Line?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of integration by parts within the context of calculus of variations, specifically regarding the transition from one line of an equation to another in a derivation related to field theory. Participants seek clarification on the steps involved in this mathematical process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests an explanation of how to move from the second to the third line in a derivation involving integration by parts.
  • Another participant mentions that the variation of the field vanishes at the boundaries, suggesting this is a key assumption in the calculus of variations.
  • A participant provides a detailed expression for the variation of the action, indicating how integration by parts can be applied to one of the terms in the equation.
  • There is a suggestion to simplify the problem by considering a case with one spatial variable to gain a better understanding of the general case.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problem, with no consensus reached on the specific steps or solutions. Some participants agree on the importance of boundary conditions, while others explore different methods or express confusion.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the behavior of variations at boundaries are acknowledged, but the discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or the specific application of integration by parts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners of field theory, particularly those grappling with the calculus of variations and integration techniques in theoretical physics.

ditaelita
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Somebody could explain me, how of the second line arrive to the third one? in my book says that is integration by parts, please helpppp :eek:
 

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the same is for this pleaseee :rolleyes:
 

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The first one is quite easy, you have [itex]\delta \dot{\phi}=\partial_{t} \delta \phi[/itex], now pat of the assumptions of calculus of variations is that the variation vanish at the boundaries. I think that will help you clear up your first problem.

How is quantum field theory treating you?
 
yes the variation vanish at the booundaries but i try and get a differente solution mmmmm

I study classical field theory from Field Quantization-Greiner and Reinhardt
 
Okay you have:
[tex] \delta S = \int_{t_{1}}^{t_{2}}\frac{\delta L}{\delta \phi}\delta \phi +\frac{\delta L}{\delta \dot{\phi}}\delta \dot{\phi} d^{3} \mathbf{x} [/tex]
Using the hint that I gave:
[tex] \delta S = \int_{t_{1}}^{t_{2}}\frac{\delta L}{\delta \phi}\delta \phi +\frac{\delta L}{\delta \dot{\phi}}\partial_{t}\delta \phi d^{3} \mathbf{x} [/tex]
The second term can be integrated by parts to obtain:
[tex] \int_{t_{1}}^{t_{2}}\frac{\delta L}{\delta \dot{\phi}}\partial_{t}\delta \phi d^{3}\mathbf{x} =\left[ \frac{\delta L}{\delta \dot{\phi}}\delta \phi\right]_{t_{1}}^{t_{2}}-\int_{t_{1}}^{t_{2}}\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\frac{\delta L}{\delta \dot{\phi}}\delta \phi d^{3}\mathbf{x}[/tex]
Putting this back in the same integral we have:
[tex] \delta S =\int_{t_{1}}^{t_{2}}\frac{\delta L}{\delta \phi}\delta \phi -\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\frac{\delta L}{\delta \dot{\phi}}\delta \phi d^{3}\mathbf{x}[/tex]
So you see now?
 
Last edited:
Thank youuuuuu so much, you're the best
I'm really happy:biggrin:
 
Now I'll try the other one
 
For that one, take a simple case of where the field has one space variable, i.e. when [itex]\phi \phi (t,x)[/itex] It will be easier and give you a good feeling for the general case.

Glad to be of help...
 

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