How does the electron keep its properties?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the properties of electrons, particularly in relation to the concept of virtual particles and how these might affect observable properties such as spin. Participants explore the implications of observing electrons and the theoretical underpinnings of their behavior in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how an electron can maintain its quantum properties, like spin, if it is constantly being substituted by virtual particles that annihilate with it.
  • Another participant asserts that all electrons are identical and that differing properties would imply they are not electrons.
  • A later reply challenges the initial hypothesis about virtual particles affecting electron properties, stating that virtual particles are not the same as real particles and are merely a mathematical construct.
  • One participant introduces the concept of conservation laws and their relationship to symmetries, referencing Emmy Noether's work, suggesting that these laws might provide insights into the behavior of particles without delving into the underlying details.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of virtual particles and their implications for electron properties. There is no consensus on the validity of the initial hypothesis regarding virtual particles and their effects on electrons.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the unclear distinction between virtual and real particles, as well as the assumptions underlying the discussion about electron properties and conservation laws.

JC_Silver
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TL;DR
If virtual particles are constantly "annihilating" electrons, how do properties such as spin stay the same?
The most recent PBS Spacetime video presented an idea I didn't really think about, that as we try to observe an electron by zooming in, the more see the effects of virtual particles that annihilate with the "original electron".


This is a great way to visualise the electron and all but one question it raised for me is that, if the electron we observe keeps being substituted by random generated clones, how does it keep certain quantum properties such as spin? Are the virtual particles all in the same superpositions and states as the electron close to them?

While I love PBS videos, the lack of any manner of reading list for anyone who wants to dive deeper is quite sad.
 
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Well, for starters all electrons are identical. They have no properties that allow you to distinguish one from another. (If they had different properties, they wouldn't be electrons - they'd be something else.)
 
JC_Silver said:
TL;DR Summary: If virtual particles are constantly "annihilating" electrons, how do properties such as spin stay the same?

The most recent PBS Spacetime video presented an idea I didn't really think about, that as we try to observe an electron by zooming in, the more see the effects of virtual particles that annihilate with the "original electron".

Generally, this is why these popular science videos are not a valid reference. There's no answer to your question except to say that if you want to go deeper, you have to forget the PBS video.

One issue is that virtual particles are not the same as "real" particles. Real particles are what we observe. And virtual particles are only a mathematical technique for making calculations. So:

JC_Silver said:
if the electron we observe keeps being substituted by random generated clones, how does it keep certain quantum properties such as spin?
... is a false hypothesis.

JC_Silver said:
While I love PBS videos, the lack of any manner of reading list for anyone who wants to dive deeper is quite sad.
You can't go deeper. These videos are essentially a dead-end. That's all you get.
 
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At the risk of getting out of my lane, I would point out that physics has several significant conservation laws. Emmy Noether showed the relationship between conservation laws and symmetries. Conservation laws are great for skipping from the beginning to the end without worrying about the details of how it got there.
 
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FactChecker said:
At the risk of getting out of my lane, I would point out that physics has several significant conservation laws. Emmy Noether showed the relationship between conservation laws and symmetries. Conservation laws are great for skipping from the beginning to the end without worrying about the details of how it got there.
I guess it makes sense, thanks
 
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JC_Silver said:
I guess it makes sense, thanks
More in this post.
 
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