How does the female mind work ?

[drag]

Greetings !

Well, this forum appears to be a bit "slow"
lately. So, nothing like a controversial
(and bloody ) multiple page discussion,
(orginally from PF2) about how the female
mind works - to get it moving again.

Try to answer all the critical aspects (and
get frustratingly dissapointed, as usual, at the
lack of any clear answers ).

Live long and prosper.

 

[drag]

Com'mon !

- What do gals like most in a guy(and is there
such a thing at all) ?
- What do they think of guys in general ?
- Why do gals appear to lack sense of
humour and sometimes have "female ego" ?
(Their answer to such a question will be an
example of that I bet. )
- Does size matter ? (Of IQ, of course. )
- Anything else you always wondered about
but never dared to ask...

I'm putting myself in serious danger here
just to get the thread going - don't
let my sacrifice be in vain !

Live long and prosper.

 

[Entropia]

First off... I would like to clarify that I am female.


- What do gals like most in a guy(and is there
such a thing at all) ?

answer: Of course, I can only speak for my personal experience and this question is difficult for me to answer because there are a lot of issues involved. But if somebody *really* wants to know the answer to this question, they can just PM me.

But to reduce it down to the lowest common denominator... and of course, also a generalization... one can increase the probability of receiving the affection of a female by doing the following:

1) making them feel good.
2) making them laugh.

Seriously.

- What do they think of guys in general ?

answer: I personally get along much better with males. I hate to say this, but women drive me crazy for very involved reasons which I won't go into at the moment. Consequently, the vast majority of my friends are male. I have noticed that this is not unusual for the "female science nerds" type. Perhaps an over generalization...

- Why do gals appear to lack sense of
humour and sometimes have "female ego" ?
(Their answer to such a question will be an
example of that I bet. )

answer: Ha! First off, I have a sense of humor, and most females I havce come across, I have noticed, have one. If anything, perhaps the females you have come across have a different kind of sense of humor than you do. And, I have no idea what you mean by the "female ego" bit.

- Does size matter ? (Of IQ, of course. )

answer: Sure!


- Anything else you always wondered about
but never dared to ask...

answer: Go on... I'll answer anything.

 

[Chagur]

"How does the female mind work ?"

That, I do believe, was the question ... Was it not?

Taking for granted that 'mind' = 'brain', I'd have to
say: 'Basically, the same as the male's 'mind', but with
different priorities and sensitivities due to a different
hormonal environment.'

 

[drag]

Greetings !

Originally posted by Entropia
- Why do gals appear to lack sense of
humour and sometimes have "female ego" ?
(Their answer to such a question will be an
example of that I bet. )

answer: Ha! First off, I have a sense of humor, and most females I havce come across, I have noticed, have one. If anything, perhaps the females you have come across have a different kind of sense of humor than you do. And, I have no idea what you mean by the "female ego" bit.

Entropia,
That's exactly what I mean.
If you were to critisize a guy (or me at least)
in the above way - I'd find it funny and
respond with some joke or at most - ask why ?
Gals ussualy "dig in" and take it as an insult
right away and try to either justify themselves or
even "strike back" (which I must credit you for not doing).
Looks like an ego to me...

Chagur,
"different priorities and sensitivities" - Go on !

Live long and prosper.

 

[Paradox]

Kind of amusing to this thread in the How Stuff Works forum...

I can't see how a group of minds can be expected to work the same. I wonder what you'd call a 'female mind'. One that belongs to a female, or one that thinks like a 'typical' female? Would you say you think like other males, Drag? Sorry if that sounds like waffle. I blame it on sleep deprivation...

 

[Chagur]

Basic (universal?)

Re. different priorities:

Female: Select impregnator; retain impregnator while incubating new life;
protect and teach resulting offspring while retaining selected impregnator;
when offspring is sufficiently independent, repeat (usually with initial impregnator).

Male: Impregnate accepting female; possibly bond with female, feed and protect if bonded;
possibly bond with offspring, feed and protect if bonding occurs;
re-impregnate accepting female if bonding has occurred, else
impregnate another accepting female.

Re. different sensitivities:

Female: Must avoid anything which may endanger a fetus.

Male: Must avoid anything which may endanger his status.

Those are the things that come to mind.

 

[Entropia]

Originally posted by Paradox
Kind of amusing to this thread in the How Stuff Works forum...

I can't see how a group of minds can be expected to work the same. I wonder what you'd call a 'female mind'. One that belongs to a female, or one that thinks like a 'typical' female? Would you say you think like other males, Drag? Sorry if that sounds like waffle. I blame it on sleep deprivation...

I think... what can be referred to as the "female mind" is the "feminine gendered mind".

What I mean by that is... gender is a social construct (keeping in mind that there is a difference between "gender" and "sex").

I was raised to be feminine and heterosexual. -I was raised to wear the clothing sold in the female clothing stores, shave my legs, armpits, wear make up, walk a certain way, have a certain kind of body language, look a certain way... etc. That is part of the feminine gender role i was programmed with. People respond to such gendered behavior in certain ways, and one engages with the world in certain ways because of that. Hence, the shaping of what I think drag might be referring to as "the female mind".

There are more similiarities than there are differences amongst males and females... its just that the differences are exagerated.


On that note..

F*ck gender roles.

 

[Chagur]

There are more similiarities (sic.) than there are differences amongst males and females... its just that the differences are exagerated (sic.).

In that between the sexes the psychology, physiology, and endocrinology are quite different ... What is being 'exaggerated', pray tell?

 

[Entropia]

Originally posted by Chagur
In that between the sexes the psychology, physiology, and endocrinology are quite different ... What is being 'exaggerated', pray tell?

Several!

"men do not have breasts." or, "men have a smaller chest than females."

I have seen several men that have a chest the same size or bigger than an A cup female. That particular difference is exagerated. I am not talking about C or D cups... I am talking about what some refer to as "man boobies".- Ever seen that Seinfeld episode where they invent, "the bro" (a male version of the bra?) That is what I am talking about.

"women are irrational."

Ugh. I've heard this one more times than you can shake a stick at. Irrationality is not something exclusive to females... if one is going to say "women are irrational", it would make more sense to say "humans are irrational". Oh wait, I forgot... males are perfectly logical and rational creatures. My bad.

To name a few. There are countless other differences in which are grossly exagerated.

 

[drag]

Greetings !

Originally posted by Paradox
Kind of amusing to this thread in the How Stuff Works forum...

I can't see how a group of minds can be expected to work the same.

They don't. But, they do share some common traits.

Originally posted by Paradox
Would you say you think like other males, Drag? Sorry if that sounds like waffle. I blame it on sleep deprivation...

In general outlines - I do act like other males.

Originally posted by Entropia
I was raised to be feminine and heterosexual. -I was raised to wear the clothing sold in the female clothing stores, shave my legs, armpits, wear make up, walk a certain way, have a certain kind of body language, look a certain way... etc. That is part of the feminine gender role i was programmed with. People respond to such gendered behavior in certain ways, and one engages with the world in certain ways because of that. Hence, the shaping of what I think drag might be referring to as "the female mind".

Another interesting point Entropia. Why do gals
often seem to stress the point that they are
forced to act and think the way they do because
of the way the present world expects them to ?
Is the world really forcing it or is it more
of a "group instinct" or maybe females just
see clearly a general "trend" they wan'na follow ?
(Not that males aren't partialy the same, but they
seem to have more "freedom" nevertheless - wether
its good or bad for them.)

Originally posted by Entropia
Oh wait, I forgot... males are perfectly logical and rational creatures. My bad.

Now you're "striking back"...
A totally rational and logical "thing" is a robot
and can not be "intellegent" or "sentient".

Live long and prosper.

 

[Entropia]

"Another interesting point Entropia. Why do gals
often seem to stress the point that they are
forced to act and think the way they do because
of the way the present world expects them to ?"

This can be a rather complicated and involved issue. I know several females whose self esteem is dependent on what people think about them, and how many males they can attract. Hence, they give a damn about these constructed standards of beauty... I mean, thousands of women jeopardize their health, and some even die or suffer unpleasant consequences in attempts to be "beautiful" (Im particularly talking about females with eating disorders... they are literally dying to be thin)

 

[J-Man]

Entropia said:
I personally get along much better with males. I hate to say this, but women drive me crazy for very involved reasons which I won't go into at the moment. Consequently, the vast majority of my friends are male. I have noticed that this is not unusual for the "female science nerds" type. Perhaps an over generalization...

I hear this a lot from women.
I don't think it's constrained to "female science nerds". But I do observe that it tends to be a trait of "down-to-earth" women. The type that have a larger than normal amount of common sense, and the type that doesn't play quite as many mind games.

 

[Chagur]

Entropia,

Your reply was so superficial and off-topic, it's not
worth attempting a serious discussion with you.

 

[Dj Sneaky Whiskers]

Originally posted by J-Man
I hear this a lot from women...But I do observe that it tends to be a trait of "down-to-earth" women. The type that have a larger than normal amount of common sense, and the type that doesn't play quite as many mind games.

This statement makes little sense to me. The implications of the stated 'observation', as well as the language used, is somewhat questionable to say the least.

Why do you believe that women with a 'larger than normal' amount of common sense and an aversion to 'mind games' are drawn towards males for friendship? The insinuation of your statement appears to be either: a) the 'normal' amount of common sense for a woman is considerably less than that for a man, the difference acting as an obstacle to the establishment of friendship between the two genders; or b) (which is, I suspect, simply an unfortunate consequence of the way the observation was phrased) That it is just good common sense to make friends with men rather than women.

Of course, there is a third possibility: That women with higher levels of common sense are capable of recognising and dismissing perceived boundaries between the genders in the context of platonic relationships. This, whilst easily being perhaps the most aggreable of the three implications does little to explain why such women are drawn to men rather than women (unless taken in conjunction with either a) or b)).

Equally dubious is the implication that 'mind games' are mainly the confined to women. Although not explicitly stated, your post does seem to infer this. Otherwise there would be no reason for a 'down to Earth' woman to be drawn towards men if it were the case that both genders were equally likely to indulge in such games.

The matter of the difference in levels of common sense is problematic as you haven't specified what you've defined as 'common sense', or how you've observed it. Do most of the women where you are play with naked flames near flammable materials? Frequently try to walk through doors before opening them? Keep getting caught up in the elaborate scams of salesmen claiming to offer magic beans? To generalise further, what's the ratio between the genders for spending wisely, sensibly preparing for an exam or a job interview, or not building castles in a swamp? I labour the point because I have a perculiar loathing of this concept of 'common sense'. It is an inconclusive and nebulous term at best, and frequently serves little purpose other than to act as an excuse not to apply rigorous analysis to complex issues or problems (i.e. "It's just common sense" being used as a justification for an argument that otherwise lacks supporting evidence).

As for the issue of the tendencies of either gender to resort to 'mind games' it is worth remembering that the doctrine of "Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" and the phenomenon of the 'playa'
are almost entirely attributed to male behaviour, a telling fact whether or not you consider such examples as mainly folklore. Both of the given examples make a virtue of manipulation in service to a selfish aim. Also, it is my general experience that women, just as much as men, are likely to complain of their partner playing mind games. Interestingly, one common complaint that I've heard is of men turning round at the tip of a hat and classifying even innocent behaviour on the female's part as being evidence that 'mind games' are afoot, i.e. a woman's behaviour which the male finds disagreeable is branded as manipulative and she is thus warned that any repeat of that behaviour will be met with a similar stinging assessment of their character.

Of course mind games do exist, and I would wager that both genders are equally likely to resort to them. However, it's my opinion that a lot of the claims of mind games are a combination of one party's behaviour or an aspect of their personality provoking the paranoia of the other, who then perceives that they are deliberately being manipulated. As an example, one of the most common complaints I've heard from males is that a woman is 'blowing hot and cold' on them (which, taken literally, actually sounds like quite a pleasant treat, but I digress...). The simple fact that she may not feel like being 'hot' all the time, or that her behaviour may at different times be affected by concerns about the relationship which she doesn't feel confident enough to voice seem to play little part in the reasoning of the male, who typically finds it far more satisfying to conclude that she must be either mentally unbalanced or in the midst of hatching some grand scheme to destroy his sanity. This is even more so the case should she then break off the relationship, in which case she is seen to obviously be one of Hitler's clones in drag.

This post has tended to go somewhat off topic, but that is because it is attempting to highlighting the inaccuracies in the idea of most women being silly creatures who are incapable of reigning in their preferences for manipulation and folly (an idea going back to the bible, with poor old 'Not just down to but *of* the Earth Adam being lulled into eating apples by that superficial spare rib on legs) which is implicit in the post to which this is an answer.

 

[Entropia]

Originally posted by Chagur
Entropia,

Your reply was so superficial and off-topic, it's not
worth attempting a serious discussion with you.

My answer to YOUR question... is just as "off topic" as your question (which i think... was arguably relevant enough).

Your right. I am sorry. Discussing "female" behavior in relation to gender differences and similarities have absolutely nothing to do with "how the 'female' mind works".

 

[Chagur]

Okay, Entropia.

Do you accept that females, after puberty, experience pre-menstrual hormonal changes that affect behavior?

If so, please describe the male equivalent.

 

[J-Man]

Dj Sneaky Whiskers said:
This statement makes little sense to me. The implications of the stated 'observation', as well as the language used, is somewhat questionable to say the least.

I would say "very questionable" opposed to "somewhat questionable".
I wasn't sure exactly what I meant either. I couldn't come up with a good adjective and chose the poor phrase "down-to-earth". Then when even I didn't understand what that meant, I tried to clarify it better, but probably ended up muddling it further. I should have cut it shorter instead.

Why do you believe that women with a 'larger than normal' amount of common sense and an aversion to 'mind games' are drawn towards males for friendship? The insinuation of your statement appears to be either: a) the 'normal' amount of common sense for a woman is considerably less than that for a man, the difference acting as an obstacle to the establishment of friendship between the two genders; or b) (which is, I suspect, simply an unfortunate consequence of the way the observation was phrased) That it is just good common sense to make friends with men rather than women.

In no way did I intend to insinuate anything of the kind. I personally believe that neither men nor women are endowed with more common sense than the other based on their gender. As far as 'b' goes, I would say it is good common sense to make friends with people you get along with, (isn't that usually the case?) again not based purely on gender.

Equally dubious is the implication that 'mind games' are mainly the confined to women. Although not explicitly stated, your post does seem to infer this.

It was not explicitly stated because it is not what I would ever say.

I wasn't even considering the male gender in any of my pitiable phrases, and I was certainly not comparing women to men but to other women. "The type that doesn't play as many mind games" should be read as "the type of woman that doesn't play as many mind games as some other women do." Same thing for the "common sense" thing which, I agree, is particularly phrased poorly.

Let me try to start over...

I hear this a lot from women.
I don't think it's constrained to "female science nerds".
(so far so good...)
I'm not really sure what "type" of woman it is constrained to, if any, but I observe that many women that feel this way wouldn't be labeled a science nerd.

 

[J-Man]

Originally posted by Chagur
If so, please describe the male equivalent.

Why bother? It doesn't matter.
How about talking about the effect changing hormones have on a woman's mind? This might lead to some insight as to how the female mind works. Since we obviously still need some clues.

 

[Chagur]

Originally posted by J-Man
Why bother? It doesn't matter.
How about talking about the effect changing hormones have on a woman's mind? This might lead to some insight as to how the female mind works. Since we obviously still need some clues.

I think it does matter, J-Man.

I would imagine that Entropia's replies to specific questions,
such as the one I posed, would give some 'insight' into the
workings of 'a' female's mind (taking for granted that Entropia
is a female).

 

[Entropia]

Originally posted by Chagur
Okay, Entropia.

Do you accept that females, after puberty, experience pre-menstrual hormonal changes that affect behavior?

If so, please describe the male equivalent.

I guess. Sure. <shrugs> I do not know much about "PMS".

And the male equivalent? I am not sure about the following being a "male equivalent" per se...but, surely testosterone and other hormones in a teenage male plays a role in behavior or mood to a certain extent.

 

[Chagur]

Your statement: There are more similiarities than there are differences amongst males and females... its just that the differences are exagerated.

My question: Do you accept that females, after puberty, experience pre-menstrual hormonal changes that affect behavior?

Your reply: I guess. Sure. <shrugs> I do not know much about "PMS".

My question: If so, please describe the male equivalent.

Your reply: ...but, surely testosterone and other hormones in a teenage male plays a role in behavior or mood to a certain extent.

Why, Entropia, are you unwilling to admit that there is no male equivalent to menstruation which normally occurs about thirteen times a year and is accompanied by extensive physical and hormonal changes?

Or do you consider it to be just an 'exaggerated' difference?

 

[damgo]

lol, this is pretty amusing.

What do gals like most in a guy?

I find arrogance and flattery in equal measure work wonders.

Why do gals appear to lack sense of humour and sometimes have "female ego"?

Maybe you just aren't very funny?

personally get along much better with males. I hate to say this, but women drive me crazy for very involved reasons which I won't go into at the moment. Consequently, the vast majority of my friends are male. I have noticed that this is not unusual for the "female science nerds" type. Perhaps an over generalization...

Naaa, that has been my observation too. Like 90% of the girls I knew in college (at a tech school) said the same damn thing.

But, surely testosterone and other hormones in a teenage male plays a role in behavior or mood to a certain extent.

Yeah, it makes you ridiculously horny all the ****ing time. At least that's what *I* remember about my teenage years!

 

[Entropia]

Originally posted by Chagur
Why, Entropia, are you unwilling to admit that there is no male equivalent to menstruation which normally occurs about thirteen times a year and is accompanied by extensive physical and hormonal changes?

Or do you consider it to be just an 'exaggerated' difference?

and

"Okay, Entropia.

Do you accept that females, after puberty, experience pre-menstrual hormonal changes that affect behavior?

If so, please describe the male equivalent."

i was talking about pre-mentrual hormonal changes, not menstration itself... since that is what you mentioned in the first place. and i was talking about a "male hormonal equivalent" to that.

menstruation itself on the other hand...and if there is a male equivalent to menstruation itself, i am unaware of it. -or heck, i don't know... maybe a guy getting is sperm is an equivalent?

What is your point, Chagur?

 

[Chagur]

My point, dear Entropia, is that for all practical purposes,
males and females are quite different ... of necessity.
The 'gender roles' imposed by a society depends on the
particular society ... But all societies recognize the in-
herent difference and impose 'gender roles'. To fail to
do so would be irrational.

Oh, and by the way ... If you check back I initially made
a point of avoiding the most obvious, and to my mind, the
most important 'difference': menstruation(and all that
goes with it).

 

[climbhi]

Originally posted by damgo

personally get along much better with males. I hate to say this, but women drive me crazy for very involved reasons which I won't go into at the moment. Consequently, the vast majority of my friends are male. I have noticed that this is not unusual for the "female science nerds" type. Perhaps an over generalization...

Naaa, that has been my observation too. Like 90% of the girls I knew in college (at a tech school) said the same damn thing.

I'm sure people will hate me for this but, after analyzing this phenomenon quite a bit I have come to my conclusions on why it seems that many "science nerd" girls claim they hate girls and get along better with guys.

It's kind of involved so bear with me. As Entropia noted there are certain different social constructs that are applied differently to men and women. Women are expected to act differently then men. One of the most notable difference is that women are typically expected to be more attractive then men. (Being a man I have absolutely no problem with this ) But many women, usually those who become "science nerds", do have a problem with this. They become fed up with the standard, usually out of laziness, and decide to defect.

Once they have decided to defect they will go to great lengths to claim that all women who do abide by the social standards are just shallow ditzy girls with no real personality or mental capability who are "dying to be thin" and attractive. They claim that in reality the women still doing this really deep down hate doing it but are too chicked to jump outside of the norms (let me just say here this is totall crap, I know several girls who are drop dead gorgeous, who are completely happy with the effort they put into looking nice, they are not dying to be thin, have just as much personality as science nerd girls and are quite smart... anyway...)

Now having defected and spending great amounts of energy trashing their former contemporaries they have to find new comrades. Because their in denial they will try to go as far from feminine things as possible, and venture into the world of typically "boys only clubs." These clubs typically are sports, math/science, and a few various others allthough these are the main ones. A few of the women go to play sports with the boys. However most realize they are at a genetic disadvantage when playing sports with boys and so they decide to go to the other historically boys only club; math and science and engineering. Here they develop friends just as in anyother situation, but they are mostly male friends hence the "I don't get along with girls, most my friends are guys."

I do think that in the coming decades we will see a change in this trend. Math/Science and Engineering are becoming less and less a boys only club and are becoming increasingly populated by feminine girls. Given time enough feminine girls will be in these fields that those girls who are defecting will no longer see math/science as the boys only club escape that it once was. Where they'll go then I'm not sure. Sports, maybe? Nah, there still smart enough to realize that they can't make it there. So I think that they will head off to womens rights groups. As these groups are typically made of those who have defected and may be their last chance to get away from feminine girls. At least in womens rights groups their not with feminine girls even though its not as good as science.

 

[Entropia]

chagur, how would not imposing gender roles be irrational?

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by climbhi
I'm sure people will hate me for this but, after analyzing this phenomenon quite a bit I have come to my conclusions on why it seems that many "science nerd" girls claim they hate girls and get along better with guys.

I like science and girls. Serioulsy, I have never had a close male friend... but I've always been popular with the ladies... I guess I just have more of a Schroedinger personality than any other kind.

eNtRopY

 

[climbhi]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
I like science and girls. Serioulsy, I have never had a close male friend... but I've always been popular with the ladies... I guess I just have more of a Schroedinger personality than any other kind.

eNtRopY

Entropy, at least in my observations the same conclusions I made do not hold for guys, only for girls...

 

[drag]

Greetings !

Glad to see the thread is growing !

climbhi,
That was a very weird "speech".
I think the "shock waves" are yet to come (we
only have Entropia here representing the female
"side" for now and she's fairly cool about
this discussion.)

I guess it has some truth in it though.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Chagur]

Originally posted by Entropia
chagur, how would not imposing gender roles be irrational?

Insofar as 'society' is an aggregation of defined 'roles', failure to assign specific male/female 'roles', gender roles, results in the confusion, the ennui, many individuals in Western, or Westernized, cultures are experiencing - Thus, irrational.

How the 'female mind' works is a red herring.
Recognition of the difference is what matters.

Unfortunately in these PC times, serious research in this area is, for all practical purposes, impossible.

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

This is all unnecessary. With all the hormones from BCP's being flushed into our water supply we'll all be female eventually. NOT that that's a BAD thing.(shhh, don't tell my sisters)

 

[drag]

What's BCPs ?

Originally posted by Echo 6 Sierra
...we'll all be female eventually. NOT that
that's a BAD thing.

Hmm...Hmm...my personal opinion is slightly
different, but let's leave it at that...

Live long and prosper.

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

BCP's = Birth Control Pills.

 

[drag]

Ooh...
Why become females ? What's in a birth control pill ?