How Oranges Exist Under Thermodynamics Laws

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SUMMARY

This discussion addresses the existence of structured objects, such as oranges, under the laws of thermodynamics, particularly focusing on the second law of thermodynamics. It concludes that while convection creates organized structures, it simultaneously increases entropy, aligning with the second law. The conversation highlights that in a closed system, entropy must either increase or remain constant, and that energy flows from high to low temperature areas. The participants suggest that the organization of molecules in oranges can occur as a result of localized decreases in entropy, facilitated by energy transfer.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the second law of thermodynamics
  • Basic knowledge of entropy and its implications
  • Familiarity with convection processes in thermodynamics
  • Concept of closed systems in physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the principles of the second law of thermodynamics in detail
  • Explore the concept of entropy and its role in physical systems
  • Investigate convection processes and their effects on energy transfer
  • Learn about closed systems and their implications in thermodynamic processes
USEFUL FOR

Students of physics, particularly those struggling with thermodynamics, as well as anyone interested in the relationship between structured objects and thermodynamic laws.

wallz
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hey, i had this question for homework:
How oranges( which have structured objects) can exist given the laws of thermodynamics?

i have no idea how to answer this, so any help is greatly appreciated
 
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When I boil some water, at first the water is silent, but then convection starts: a very structured mass movement of particles appears spontaneously. Shouldn't the second law forbid this? After all, a disorganized mass of water molecules all decide to move coherently! The answer is no, even more so, the second law also likes it! After all, what is the result of convection? Convection is for heat transfer (a better word is "energy dissipitation"); so although the convection itself is a very organized structure, its role is to increase entropy faster (heat gets distributed faster with convection than without it), so in this process entropy production increases and does not decrease.

How does this relate to oranges? Maybe the whole concept of life is just one big spontaneous convection: organized structures that simply accelerate the production of randomness
 
okay i just want to ask you , because i think i have grasp of what the answer is and your input helped a lot.
so assuming that the world is a closed system that would mean that the entropy of the world is always increasing or stays the same
also keeping in mind that entropy is an expression of the randomness or disorder
as well as that energy flows from hi temperature areas to low temperature ones.
So if the worlds entropy is increasing then the randomness and disorder is increasing, while the energy is moving from its high temperature areas to the low ones, since orange molecules are not closed system and assuming that their entropy decreases, the energy flowing to the low temperature areas is able to make oranges exist since the entropy is decreasing for those molecules hence the disorder is decreasing so the molecules can pull together or stay together?

does that seem right?
i know some of it might be wrong, but I am really bad at physics at the university level, maybe because of the how quick lessons go i don't catch on quick enough
 

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