If f is integrable over E iff |f| is integrable over E.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the integrability of a function \( f \) over a set \( E \) and its relationship to the integrability of its absolute value \( |f| \). The original poster references a problem from Royden's text, questioning whether the integrability of \( |f| \) implies the integrability of \( f \) and explores related concepts of improper Riemann and Lebesgue integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to prove that if \( f \) is integrable, then \( |f| \) is also integrable, using properties of positive and negative parts of \( f \). They question the reverse implication: whether \( |f| \) being integrable implies \( f \) is integrable. Some participants suggest considering the established inequality \( \left|\int_E f \right| \leq \int |f| \) in this context.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the implications of the inequality and the conditions under which it holds. There is a recognition of the need for clarity regarding the assumptions made about integrability, particularly in relation to improper integrals. Some participants express uncertainty about the graphical interpretation of the integrals involved.

Contextual Notes

The original poster mentions a specific example involving the function \( \frac{\sin x}{x} \) to illustrate potential discrepancies between Riemann and Lebesgue integrability, indicating a need for further exploration of these concepts. There is also a mention of the conditions under which the integrals may diverge.

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Homework Statement


Royden Chapter 4, Problem 10a

Show that if f is integrable over E then so is |f| and \left|\int_E f \right| \leq \int |f|.
Does the integrability of |f| => the integrability of f?



Homework Equations



f^+ = max\{f, 0\}
f^- = max\{-f, 0\}

|f| = f^+ + f^-

A function is integrable if \int f < \infty



The Attempt at a Solution



I have \left|\int_E f \right| \leq \int |f|

\left|\int_E f\right| = \left| \int_E f^+ - \int_E f^- \right| \leq \left| \int_E f^+ \right| + \left| \int_E f^- \right| = \int_E |f|.

Next I want to show that if f is integrable over E then so is |f|.

\int_E f < \infty

\int_E f^+ - \int_E f^- < \infty

f+ and f- are finite because the expression a-b is only finite if both a and b are finite.

\int_E f^+ < \infty
\int_E f^- < \infty

Hence:

\int_E |f| = \int_E f^+ + \int_E f^- < \infty.


Does the integrability of |f| => the integrability of f?


I would say yes for similar reasons. I don't feel very confident about my answers here. Is the reasoning correct?

Also part b says that the improper Riemann integral (a limit) may exists for a function when the Legesgue integral fails to exists. and gives (sin x)/x as an example. Is the problem with (sin x)/x that f+ and f- are not finite??
 
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To see that |f| is integrable => f is integrable, think about the inequality you proved.
 
The proof of the inequality

<br /> \left|\int_E f \right| \leq \int |f|<br />

is correct if you assume that f is integrable.

f+ and f- are finite because the expression a-b is only finite if both a and b are finite.

And what if both are infinite? Does this contradict the hypothesis that f is integrable?

By the way, a function is Lebesgue integrable iff is absolutely Lebesgue integrable (that is f is integrable iff |f| also is).

The reason regarding the existence of improper Riemann integrals is pretty much what you said, but note that the how problem ties with your quoted statement above.
 
JSuarez said:
The proof of the inequality

<br /> \left|\int_E f \right| \leq \int |f|<br />

is correct if you assume that f is integrable.

And that was given, so it's just very simple.

JSuarez said:
And what if both are infinite? Does this contradict the hypothesis that f is integrable?

Yes.
 
So you have it.
 
But I don't get it. Graphically that is. The integral on R of higher dimensions is analogue to summation of R. Now if f = sinx /x the summation (if x belongs to N) is finite but |sinx/x| is not finite. Doesn't the same apply for the integral? Let x belong to R of higher dimensions. Wouldn't the same happen? Because I have never seen what you said. I have seen and tried to prove what you are asking but never what you said.
 
Sorry, you have to more clear. I don't understand your reply.
 

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