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I'm confused about the War on Terror

  1. May 12, 2004 #1
    I'm confused about the War on Terrorism

    I can’t understand why most people on the far left, intellectuals and liberal Jews are opposed to the war on terrorism, when they would be in great peril if the Islamo-fascist succeed. I can’t understand why homosexuals and women’s rights advocates consider the war on terrorism secondary to same sex marriage and women’s reproductive rights, when they would be in great peril if the Islamo-fascist succeed. I can’t understand why heterosexual women in general don’t take a greater interest in the war on terrorism, when they would be relegated to chattel status if the Islamo-fascist succeed.
    Last edited: May 12, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. May 13, 2004 #2
    Hahahahaaa! :D

    Oh, wait... you were serious?
  4. May 13, 2004 #3
    Islamo-fascist, while a catchie term is less a danger to world freedoms then christian-fascists
    do to their limited location in remote countrys, with little power to do more then random terror bomb compared to our local christian-fascists
    like bush Jr and his many supporters who currently rule the most powerfull nation on earth :eek:

    so the threat of a Islamo-fascist in the USA is random terror but the christian-fascist threat is far more local, and real, as they are in power here and now
    Islamo-fascist are far away and have no chance to efffect our daily lives and laws

    BTW what is the real difference in farrightwing religious nuts be they taliban, ortho jew, or bible thumping christian, in the overall threat to freedom and progress of civilrights
    all hate gays
    all want to censor, movies, books, music ect
    all have sex hangups
    all want to control goverments to shape laws to suit their religions ideas
    all are anti-womans rights
    all are anti-abortion
    all think anyone not in their CULT is evil

    the threat to freedom from religion is the root problem, not just one religion all are evil :devil:
  5. May 13, 2004 #4
    So Rob, are you saying that this "liberalism" and "freedom" that the war on terror is promising - if it succeeds - is a good thing? Just by looking at the state of the countries who are on the "good" side of this war is enough to put me of that notion!

    Nothing more...
  6. May 13, 2004 #5


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    There was virtually no resistance to the invasion of Afghanistan. There has been virtually no objection to the tracking down and seizure of Al Qaeda monetery assets. The war on Iraq is an entirely different matter unconnected with the war on terror.

    The only aspect of the war on terror to which there has been significant resistance are the special laws and policies to push the limits (or exceed the limits) of civil and human rights. Now, can you guess why women, homosexuals and those with far-left political views would dislike a program of special laws aimed at depriving special groups of their rights? They have all been victimized by such laws in the past. They are rightfully suspicious.

  7. May 13, 2004 #6
    What about the pigeons rayB? Theyre local, always nearby, they control the air. If they turn against us were in deep ****!
  8. May 13, 2004 #7
    I saw a site that has similar beliefs as Robert Zaleski, http://www.protestwarrior.com. This site elaborates on the definition of Islamo-Fascism (while bashing leftist views in the process).

    While I do not personally agree with this website, I at least now know their argument.
  9. May 13, 2004 #8


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    I don't know. I went there and found ...um... enthusiasm but no ideas about anything. There were large dead patches on the page, maybe that's where links to their ideas are.

    The only thing I found was that they dislike liberals and really hate A.N.S.W.E.R. Most liberals hate A.N.S.W.E.R. too though.

    They seem very much to be the mirror image of what they claim to resent - thoughtless protestation against American values without any clear idea of what those values are. Like A.N.S.W.E.R., they don't know much, but they like marching around with signs.

  10. May 13, 2004 #9
    QUOTE=studentx]What about the pigeons rayB? Theyre local, always nearby, they control the air. If they turn against us were in deep ****![/QUOTE]

    looking at my car I fear they have

    but they can't make laws
    unlike the rightwing christian nuts
    who are much closer to the tali-ban in outlook
    and over all goals for their
  11. May 13, 2004 #10
    Thank you all for your warm enthusiastic responses. Let me see if I have this straight. It’s been implied that I’m a religious zealot, anti-abortion, anti-women rights, anti-gay, have sexual problems (woe is me!), want censorship on all forms of entertainment and want to drag law abiding citizens out of their homes in the middle of the night to be interrogated by the ‘Ascroft’s Gestapo’. I think I now understand.
  12. May 13, 2004 #11
    Woohoo! Bombs for peace!
  13. May 14, 2004 #12


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    Was that implied in a different thread? I didn't see it in this one.

  14. May 14, 2004 #13
    I dislike the conservative stereotype that left-wingers/democrats are 'weak on terror' and are 'terrorist apoligists' and such. I too disagree with that point of view (IE that we dont need to fight terrorism, like in Afganistan, and that if you only reason with terrorists they wont kill people), and there are certainly many liberals like that, but as a whole I think democrats are also concerned with fighting terrorism. Actually I think the democratic argument is that George Bush has not been fighting the war on terror properly.
  15. May 14, 2004 #14


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    I bet you hated "Starship Troopers," didn't you.

    And why did you join the military anyway?
  16. May 15, 2004 #15
    The movie of Starship Troopers is a great laugh. I love it. The book is a completely different story, but I enjoyed that too.

    Why did I join the navy? To see the world, have an adventure, et cetera. It's a good life for a young chap.
  17. May 15, 2004 #16


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    I agree with Jake. We need to fight terrorism, but the way trhe Bush administration has gone about it has actually made us less secure from terror. If we had just ignored Iraq and put the equivalent forces into Afghanistan, we could have monitored every damn hole and tunnel on the Afghan-Pakistan border and probably eliminated bin Ladien and all his associates. Iraq has brought us nothing but shame and grief.
  18. May 15, 2004 #17


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    BTW, Clinton wanted to invade Afghanistan after the Cole attack, but let himself be talked out of it. After 9/11, if Gore had been president, he surely would have gone for that option.
  19. May 15, 2004 #18
    The whole Iraq thing is a self fullfilling prophecy. Its hard to do your work when the whole world is screaming in your face. If we werent so divided, it wouldnt be so messy.
    Americans are attacked becuz their enemy believes what the entire world screamed to them: BUSH= HITLER.
    Terrorists will attack us whatever we do and we will increasingly become less secure whatever we do. There is always a scandal they use. If there is no scandal , they will attack us anyway and we will think deeply about what their reasons are and we will find a just one, one the terrorists couldnt even find themselves
  20. May 15, 2004 #19
    Would have, could have, should have. What he did do on his watch was nothing. As for Gore taking up the gauntlet; a sixty year old that's still trying to find himself, well, I quess Gore could have reinvented himself into Crusader Rabbit leading are valiant troops into the jaws of the Khyber Pass to face the evil doers.
  21. May 20, 2004 #20
    Maybe because women's rights apart from Kabul haven't increased, they got a bit better in Kabul and even worse in some areas things have even gone worse. Not that anyone cares. Afghan women are only important when they can be (ab)used for propaganda reasons.

    Afghanistan: Women Still Not "Liberated"

    The 52-page report, "We Want to Live As Humans": Repression of Women and Girls in Western Afghanistan, focuses on the increasingly harsh restrictions on women and girls imposed by Ismail Khan, a local governor in the west of Afghanistan who has received military and financial assistance from the United States. Human Rights Watch said that the situation in Herat was symptomatic of developments across the country, and that women and girls were facing new restrictions in several other regions as well.

    "Many people outside the country believe that Afghan women and girls have had their rights restored. It's just not true," said Zama Coursen-Neff, the co-author of the report and counsel to the Children's Rights Division of Human Rights Watch. "Women and girls are still being abused, harassed, and threatened all over Afghanistan, often by government troops and officials."

    Human Rights Watch found that women's and girls' rights in Herat had improved since the fall of the Taliban, noting that many women and girls have been allowed to return to school and university, and to some jobs. But the report found that these advances were tempered by growing government repression of social and political life. Ismail Khan has censored women's groups, intimidated outspoken women leaders, and sidelined women from his administration in Herat. Restrictions on the right to work mean that many women will never be able to use their education.

    The Human Rights Watch report said that the Herat government has even recruited schoolboys to spy on girls and women and report on so-called un-Islamic behavior.

    In some instances, police under Ismail Khan's command have questioned women and girls seen alone with men, even taxi drivers, and arrested those who are not related. Human Rights Watch said that men caught in such circumstances are usually taken to jail; women are brought to a hospital, where police force doctors to conduct medical exams on the women to determine whether they have had recent sexual intercourse, or if unmarried, whether they are virgins.

    "Ismail Khan has created an atmosphere in which government officials and private individuals believe they have the right to police every aspect of women's and girls' lives: how they dress, how they get around town, what they say," said Coursen-Neff. "Women and girls in Herat expected and deserved more when the Taliban were overthrown."

    Human Rights Watch said that problems for women and girls were growing worse in many parts of the country outside of the capital, Kabul. Throughout 2002, girls' schools in at least five different provinces have been set on fire or destroyed by rocket attacks.

    Human Rights Watch said that reports from around the country indicate that government troops and officials regularly target women and girls for abuse, often invoking vague edicts on dress and social behavior. In many areas, local police and troops are enforcing Taliban-era restrictions, including banning music and forcing women and adolescent girls to continue wearing burqas.

    Human Rights Watch said that many of these local forces have received weapons and assistance from the United States and other countries during 2002. Human Rights Watch called on all countries involved in Afghanistan to cease military assistance to local commanders and to coordinate all future aid through Kabul's central government.

    Human Rights Watch urged the Afghan Transitional Administration in Kabul to prohibit harassment and abuse targeted at women, and to appoint new civilian governors in provinces in which serious abuses against women and girls are occurring. Human Rights Watch also called on the international community to support the Afghan government in these efforts. It urged international donors to support the work of Afghan women, inside and outside of the government, for example, by supporting women's groups throughout the country.

    Human Rights Watch called on the U.N. Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) to expand human rights monitoring efforts and to continue efforts to strengthen the Afghan Human Rights Commission, in order to help protect all Afghans seeking to speak openly and challenge abusers.

    Noting that efforts to improve security and human rights protection would require an increased presence of international peacekeepers, Human Rights Watch urged the United States, Germany, and the Netherlands to lead efforts to expand international peacekeeping forces in Afghanistan, which are currently stationed only in the Kabul area. Germany and the Netherlands will take joint command of the peacekeeping forces in early 2003. Human Rights Watch urged the United States, European Union nations, and NATO, as well as Pakistan, Iran, and other countries bordering Afghanistan to contribute logistical and intelligence support necessary for international peacekeeping to expand.

    "The U.S.-led coalition justified the war against the Taliban in part by promising that it would liberate Afghanistan's women and girls," said Coursen-Neff. "In fact, by supporting repressive warlords, the international community has broken that promise and forsaken women's rights."

    The Human Rights Watch report is the second of two reports on Herat. In November, Human Rights Watch released a 51-page report, "All Our Hopes Are Crushed: Violence and Repression in Western Afghanistan," documenting abuses by Ismail Khan's forces against political opponents, detainees and ethnic minorities.
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