Is it possible that the two bodies having same charge attract each other ?

[sankalpmittal]

I am sorry i didnt have the time to read all of yours answerss to if it is already answered, just jump over my answer.

So, if a body is greatly charged(has a greater free elec. charge density than the other) than the other, it can induce opposite charges on the less (charge) dense body. And, a net attractuion between them can take place.

A and B have same size and shape and material. But, suppose A has 2 mole free elec but B has .25 mole free elec, the elec of A can "effectively" push the not so many electrons of B to the other size hence creating a greater distance between negative chareges, and a smaller distance between neg charge of A and +ve charged atoms of B, and net attartction will result. ;P

I wish i kjnew how to DRAW it here.

Yeah .

 

[mrspeedybob]

Suppose you have 2 objects suspended in a fluid, both objects and the fluid have the same density. The fluid is non-conductive and extends far enough away from both objects in all directions that its edge is irrelevant. Object A has a charge density of +1 coulomb per unit volume, the fluid has a charge density of +2 coulombs per unit volume, and object B has a charge density of +3 coulomb per unit volume.

It seems like the fluid would act as a false neutral. A would have a charge of -1 compared to the fluid and B would have a charge of +1 compared to the fluid so A and B should attract.

Another way to think of this would be to say that object B experiences electrostatic repulsion from the fluid, this repulsion is less in the direction of object A since A displaces some fluid and replaces it with a volume of lower charge. Also The fluid is more highly repulsed from object B then object A is, therefore the fluid moves to the opposite side of object A from object B displacing A and forcing it toward B.

 

[Drakkith]

Bob, even if that does work it doesn't mean A and B are attracting each other. They are simply being pushed together.

 

[newtant]

we can also draw an analogy. Suppose we have 3 guys. You can increase it to any number. Say, 1 guy has so so much money. The other has a small amount of money. Person 3 has zero money. 1 can induce greed in person 2 and 3. Person 2 can induce greed in only person 3. Person 3 can't induce **** lol. So now say greed is equal to attracting. I hope this was clear and simple. I personally think physics is one subject that has endless analogies that can be drawn.

 

[Drakkith]

Your analogy is incorrect. Greed is mutually repulsive in this example. Nothing is induced anywhere.

 

[Born2bwire]

Suppose you have 2 objects suspended in a fluid, both objects and the fluid have the same density. The fluid is non-conductive and extends far enough away from both objects in all directions that its edge is irrelevant. Object A has a charge density of +1 coulomb per unit volume, the fluid has a charge density of +2 coulombs per unit volume, and object B has a charge density of +3 coulomb per unit volume.

It seems like the fluid would act as a false neutral. A would have a charge of -1 compared to the fluid and B would have a charge of +1 compared to the fluid so A and B should attract.

Another way to think of this would be to say that object B experiences electrostatic repulsion from the fluid, this repulsion is less in the direction of object A since A displaces some fluid and replaces it with a volume of lower charge. Also The fluid is more highly repulsed from object B then object A is, therefore the fluid moves to the opposite side of object A from object B displacing A and forcing it toward B.

This is a good point to keep in mind. We often assume the mindset of the vacuum as being our background in many problems. But if we allow for some interstitual medium we can get results that are contrary to our initial feelings. We can get like charged bodies to attract. Likewise, in van der Waals and Casimir forces we can get objects that would normally attract to repulse through judicious choice of our background medium.

Anyway, I believe this is outside of what the OP was asking about. It seems that the OP is assuming that there can be a time lag in the distribution of the charges on the objects in response to the applied field of the other. He seems to posit that the time lag could result in a charge distribution that would momentarily allow for attraction and if this attraction is strong enough can cause an avalanche effect that continually reinforces the attraction.

However, I too will contend that his equation is incorrect by the simple basis of incorrect units and dimensional analysis. He contends that:

F = Q^2*R/(T*D)

However, we already know that

F = k*Q^2/D

(To use his standard of notation) where k is in units of H/m. I know of no process by which you can argue that ohm/sec is equivalent to H/m and thus his equation fails.

Nor do I think that the OP's conceptual theory works either. Still, to properly analyze this phenomenon he cannot use electrostatics but must use electrodynamics because the reorganization of charges on the objects would be currents. Thus you would have electromagnetic fields to contend with in the analysis.

 

[sankalpmittal]

Bob, even if that does work it doesn't mean A and B are attracting each other. They are simply being pushed together.

That is what i was trying to conclude .

If there are two bodies A and B :

1. A possesses X unit of charge.
2. B possesses 3X unit of charge .

Then How can these two bodies attract ??


Body B will repel whole mass of body A in flick of a second before induction takes place .

 

[Dadface]

Looking at the original question I think the answer is yes and I think the reasoning for this was given most elegantly by DrZoidberg in post number ten.If anyone is unable to see this,then extend DrZoidbergs scenario further by having the body with the single excess electron having an enormous size and the second body having a very small size.In principle that single electron could be separated from the small body by distances tending to infinity.

 

[Dadface]

That is what i was trying to conclude .

If there are two bodies A and B :

1. A possesses X unit of charge.
2. B possesses 3X unit of charge .

Then How can these two bodies attract ??


Body B will repel whole mass of body A in flick of a second before induction takes place .

Why should they attract? For attraction the charge ratio is likely to be much greater than three to one.

 

[cragar]

what if we had 2 black holes that had the same charge and their gravitational attraction over came the repulsion.

 

[Superstring]

what if we had 2 black holes that had the same charge and their gravitational attraction over came the repulsion.

Isn't the electrostatic force carried by photons which can't escape the hole in the first place (by definition)?

 

[cragar]

I thought a BH could have 3 properties and one of them is charge. I thought when an electron crosses the event horizon its Electric field will be frozen in outside the event horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charged_black_hole
And if that doesn't work I still think we might be able to have 2 very large masses that have very little charge that could gravitationally attract that weren't black holes. Maybe.

 

[Drakkith]

I think we are getting off track here. I thought the question was all related to the attraction and repulsion due to the electromagnetic fields. Otherwise the issue is pretty moot.

 

[Cbray]

Suppose there is body A and body B of same size and both are having negative charge . They are separated by the distance of less than 35 cm . If body B has thrice the more quantity of charge as body A , will body B and A attract each other ?

How can two masses have different charges? (Not going against, just new to physics).

 

[sankalpmittal]

How can two masses have different charges? (Not going against, just new to physics).

In case of static electricity suppose a body A is positively charged and other body B is neutral .
Then you bring body A close to body B . Since body A is having deficiency of electrons it will attract electrons towards itself from opposite extreme end of body B . This end acquires negative charge while other positive . opposite end has less powerful bond and loses negative charge to atmosphere or Earth .Or if you rub comb with hair then comb acquires positive charge while hairs negative ( depending on electrification series )
In which class are you and from which country ?
I am in class 10th , 14 years from India .

 

[Cbray]

In case of static electricity suppose a body A is positively charged and other body B is neutral .
Then you bring body A close to body B . Since body A is having deficiency of electrons it will attract electrons towards itself from opposite extreme end of body B . This end acquires negative charge while other positive . opposite end has less powerful bond and loses negative charge to atmosphere or Earth .


Or if you rub comb with hair then comb acquires positive charge while hairs negative ( depending on electrification series )



In which class are you and from which country ?
I am in class 10th , 14 years from India .

Sorry I didn't notice that it was due to static electricity.

I'm in Year 9, 14 years old from Australia :)

 

[sankalpmittal]

Sorry I didn't notice that it was due to static electricity.

I'm in Year 9, 14 years old from Australia :)

You are in class 9th ??and 14 years !Hey I am also 14 years in class 10th .

Do classes in Australia start from 6 years or something ? :D

 

[Cbray]

You are in class 9th ??and 14 years !Hey I am also 14 years in class 10th .

Do classes in Australia start from 6 years or something ? :D

Kindergarten - Year 6 (Primary School). Year 7 - 10 (High school). Year 11 - 12 (College). Then University.

 

[sankalpmittal]

Kindergarten - Year 6 (Primary School). Year 7 - 10 (High school). Year 11 - 12 (College). Then University.

In India :
Kindergarten- Year 5(Primary School). Year 6-8(Middle School) . Year 9-10 (High School or secondary school) . Year 11-12 (College or senior secondary)

Then degree colleges or universities .

 

[Superstring]

In India :
Kindergarten- Year 5(Primary School). Year 6-8(Middle School) . Year 9-10 (High School or secondary school) . Year 11-12 (College or senior secondary)

Then degree colleges or universities .

This is extremely off-topic.

 

[Drakkith]

This is extremely off-topic.

Yes, it would be better if you took those posts to private messages, but it's not that big a deal. Everyone starts somewhere!

Also, I wouldn't mind an answer to my previous post. Are we strictly talking about attraction due to the electromagnetic force from two like charged objects? Otherwise I don't think the term "attraction" applies if the objects are being forced together by something else.

 

[sankalpmittal]

Yes, it would be better if you took those posts to private messages, but it's not that big a deal. Everyone starts somewhere!

Also, I wouldn't mind an answer to my previous post. Are we strictly talking about attraction due to the electromagnetic force from two like charged objects? Otherwise I don't think the term "attraction" applies if the objects are being forced together by something else.

Is the answer to the question i have asked is "Yes or No" ?

Can the two bodies having same charge attract each other if one body possesses greater charge than other ? According to me its no and i have the reason .



Whats your view ??


Please tell the answer and be cent percent sure .

 

[Fun Value]

You are in class 9th ??


and 14 years !


Hey I am also 14 years in class 10th .

Do classes in Australia start from 6 years or something ? :D

I am a ninth grade teacher here in the US. In ninth grade we learn that atoms have a bunch of positively charged protons in the nucleus and we ask what holds all these protons together. Now I did not read all the posts, mostly the silly ones, but I think that one, two or three, or even more positive protons will repel one positive proton with "electrostatic repulsion." Those protons will repel one other proton with about the same force over long distances such as the diameter of a Uranium nucleus as well as short distances of a few proton diameters.
But take three protons that are close to one other proton on the edge of the nucleus - say one proton's diameter separation. We wonder why that proton doesn't fly off. Here is where many disagree and maybe you will find my errors in thinking, but I think there is strong nuclear force (SNF) of attraction (not electronic attraction, but the strong force attraction) between the four protons. This SNF is strong over very short distances and weakens rapidly with increasing distance. The SNF is so strong that even though there are 92 other protons pushing that one proton away, the SNF with the 3 neighboring protons holds it from being ejected. Each of the 92 protons pushes away with the same amount of electronic repulsive force. The SNF of attraction must be very strong, strong enough to overcome all that repulsion. The Uranium nucleus may stay together due to this SNF from not only protons, but from over 140neutrons.
Now I wonder if you or anyone is going to say something like the protons do not have SNF for other protons, but only neutrons have the strong force for protons and for other neutrons. I am probably not going to argue, because I really don't know.

 

[Drakkith]

You are pretty much 100% correct Fun Value. The protons all repel each other due to the electromagnetic force from their positive charge. Each proton is bound by the Strong Force to other protons and neutrons.

 

[sankalpmittal]

You are pretty much 100% correct Fun Value. The protons all repel each other due to the electromagnetic force from their positive charge. Each proton is bound by the Strong Force to other protons and neutrons.

But will the two bodies say A with negative charge and B with 4 times of negative charge than A attract each other ??



YES/NO??
AND WHY??

 

[Drakkith]

I don't know if they aren't stationary, but if they are static then they will not because they both have a negative charge and will repel.

 

[sankalpmittal]

I don't know if they aren't stationary, but if they are static then they will not because they both have a negative charge and will repel.

Dude , those two bodies are stationary (ie A and B).


In my book it was written that those A and B will attract since the negative charge of B will repel the electrons of A as A is less negatively charged .

So in other extreme end of A , the deficiency of electrons will occur making that end positively charged and thus A and B will attract .



But according to me the two bodies will repel in flick of seconds before attraction can take place .

 

[Drakkith]

Look at my post on the bottom of page 1 of this thread. I think that covers what you are talking about.