Is the mass of the electron constant?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the constancy of the electron mass and its implications for physical phenomena, particularly the redshift observed in distant galaxies. Participants explore whether the mass of the electron could change over time and how such changes might affect atomic behavior and fundamental constants.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the mass of the electron has changed over the universe's evolution, it could explain the redshift of distant galaxies, suggesting an alternative to the expansion of the universe.
  • Others argue that there is no evidence to support the idea that the mass of the electron changes with time, asserting it is a fundamental constant in the Standard Model of particle physics.
  • One participant notes that the mass of the electron is defined as a dimensionful constant, and changes in mass could be redefined through units without physical consequences.
  • There are discussions about the fine structure constant and its potential variations, with some suggesting that any changes would need to be below the level of experimental detection.
  • Some participants express confusion about the implications of changing constants and question how such changes could be measured or detected.
  • The concept of rest mass is clarified, with participants discussing how it relates to energy content and the behavior of electrons in different states (bound vs. free).
  • One participant emphasizes the need for substantial evidence before considering the implications of a changing electron mass.
  • There are inquiries about the nature of constants and their behavior over time, with discussions on whether all constants could change simultaneously and what that would mean for physical laws.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether the mass of the electron is constant or could change over time. While some assert it is a fundamental constant, others explore the implications of potential changes, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for dimensionless constants in discussions about changes in mass and the implications for physical phenomena. There is also a recognition that any changes in fundamental constants would need to be carefully measured and defined relative to other constants.

  • #31
Nugatory said:
There's no good answer to that question, because we do not live in a universe in which "the Compton wavelengths of all atomic particles [are always in] a fixed ratio to the Hubble radius". Thus the question is tantamount to asking what we learn by applying the laws of physics in a situation in which they do not apply - and the answer is that they tell us nothing because they don't apply.

This answer surprises me. The great strength of mainstream physics is that it can always explain what phenomenological nonsense - or at least what contradictions to empirical findings - would happen if one were to replace the established model with a crank idea at any point. You did that pretty well above - a universe in which only the electron changes its Compton wavelength over time, but not the other particles, would look completely different from ours because of the change in mp/me over time.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Here's an example of such a study from ten years ago. There have been similar updates of this approach every year or two since then.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
  • #33
ohwilleke said:
Here's an example of such a study from ten years ago. There have been similar updates of this approach every year or two since then.
Another nice article that shows or rather admits that the sole variation of the electron mass can be empirically refuted, but not a coordinated variation of the masses of all subatomic particles ("Of course, it is possible that several of these quantities are varying, and just by chance all the variation cancels out of the electron mass to proton mass ratio ... So there's a caveat, but it is a small one." ).

Ultimately, everyone can decide for themselves how big or small this caveat is. Just as everyone can answer the question for themselves whether they are convinced that darth... uh dark matter and dark energy (or at least one of both) will be directly detected during the rest of their lifetime.

In making this decision, I myself would pay more attention to the muon precision experiments from 2010 and 2013 (see proton radius puzzle), in which a proton radius of around 0.8412 fm was determined. Thus the ratio of the reduced Compton wavelength of the electron and the proton radius corresponds almost exactly to a quarter of mp/me. The whole confinement approach has no explanation for this match.
Suppose there were two projects to choose from: a new fancy telescope that could finally detect dark energy, or another precision experiment to confirm the conjecture that the proton radius is in a simple numerical relationship to the Compton wavelength of the electron. I bet you that the latter is more promising.
 
  • Skeptical
Likes   Reactions: weirdoguy, ohwilleke and PeroK

Similar threads

  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
7K
  • · Replies 132 ·
5
Replies
132
Views
9K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K