Is There a Double Standard in Dating Expectations for Men and Women?

[neu]

Bla, insecurity in a woman is a huge turn-off for me. When girls try to pull that kind of crap I tell them exactly what they don't want to hear. Does this make me look fat? Yes. Are my eyes pretty? No. Don't ask me these stupid questions...they have no point and are signs of insecurity. Now, she should stop and think: if you were fat or had ugly eyes do you really think I'd be sitting here spending my time with you? No, I wouldnt.

Are you single?

 

[Moonbear]

From what I have seen it seems that it is likely much easier to get what you want from the average woman if you don't do much for her in the first place. apparently you need to make them feel like you might leave them any time and so they need to work to keep you.

Only if you're into dating insecure psychos. If they're only doing things to cling and keep you from wandering off, do both of you a favor and leave. Relationships formed on a premise of threats of leaving aren't healthy relationships, they're a form of psychological manipulation/abuse, and it only works on the insecure.

I actually had an ex tell me that I should never have told her that she didn't have to worry about me cheating or leaving her because she suddenly felt like there was no longer any point to doing anything for me. Not that she had been doing much to begin with.

First off, good that she's an ex, because by that behavior she should be an ex. Second, I bolded a key sentence there. It's not that she was no longer motivated to do anything for you, it's that she never did anything in the first place, and was just finding excuses for it.

If you're keeping score or waiting for the other person to make a move before you make a move, play chess, don't date. A relationship should be more like the way you interact with best friends, just more so. If you go out with your friends for a meal, do you pull out your calculators and divide up the cost to the penny and keep track of each favor they do for you so you know exactly how many favors to do for them in return? No (or at least I sure hope not). Rather, you have a general sense that there is give and take. My friends will sometimes pick up the tab for a meal for me, and if I offer to pay, the usual response is, "Don't worry about it, you can pick up the tab another time." And I do. I don't go counting pennies and make sure we're dollar-for-dollar matching what tabs we pick up. I do have a sense that over time, it's fairly even (i.e., they aren't just buying cheap sandwiches for lunch while I'm buying the expensive dinners in fancy restaurants)...well, with an exception of some who I know just don't earn so much, so if I want to go to a fancy restaurant, I know they can't really afford it, so I'll pick up their costs there so that I can sometimes eat at the restaurants I most enjoy with their company. In exchange, they might do a favor that doesn't cost anything but time (i.e., watering my plants when I'm away).

If you find yourself constantly keeping track of who pays for what, or what favors are exchanged for what, then consider that there is something wrong...either you're already getting that general sense of imbalance, all take and no give, or there's some lack of trust, or you're just not clicking so you don't feel like doing anything special for that person.

If you're doing things with an expectation of payment with something else done in return, you don't have a relationship either, you have a business arrangement. If you're only helping out with chores when you want sex, don't be surprised if she senses that and finds it aggravating. As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, it's like sex becomes your allowance, nothing more than a pat on the head for being a good boy. If a marriage has degraded to the point where sex is something exchanged for chores, then there's something very wrong with the relationship. If you're not doing things for one another simply because you appreciate each other being there, then there's a problem. I also have an issue with adults thinking chores should be rewarded with ANYTHING, or that one person is exempt from them unless they get something in return. Chores are necessities. Adults just do them because they need to get done. They aren't tokens to trade for sexual favors. And, if you never do chores if you're not in the mood for sex, more often than not, your "partner" is going to spend a lot more time frustrated and annoyed with you for not pulling your weight. One day of doing the dishes and taking out the trash won't fix that.

 

[DaveC426913]

If you're keeping score ... play chess, don't date.

Hear hear.


And if you're in a relationship where you're tempted to keep score, either communicate or get out. You guys sound like you've been in unhealthy relationships long enough to get tainted with them.

 

[rewebster]

Excellent post, MB---


Also, with that ---those that 'keep score' or wait for the other one 'to do something' are also usually somewhat insecure themselves, in that they usually don't feel secure enough in themselves that they will feel cheated and hurt if the 'game' ends and they're 'down' one or two points.

Everyone is usually insecure in some area or another, either from inexperience or from something in their past that makes them that way--and then add in *hormones* <yippee>--then things can really strange/wild/interesting/great/horrible/etc.


When you are looking out from/'for yourself' more than for the other person, that's usually coming from your/the 'survival' mode--and if, what you're 'thinking' is more on the line of "I want a woman / (man) with... (/or, that does this for me, or he/she already has xxxxx, and that's what I want)..."-----I have never seen one of those relations last, or last very long.

There are a lot of 'names' that identify people with 'needing' something (a little different) on both sexes to fill their insecurities---from 'he wants a slave' to 'she's a groupie'.

Insecurities aren't always bad--unless they're effecting your life in some detrimental way.


http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/regsys/maslow.gif

http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/regsys/maslow.html

 

[rewebster]

And---people bounce from one level to the next---'asking a question' may put you up in the 'need to know' level, but in the next second, you may say to yourself, 'I'm thirsty' which puts you down in the 'physiological needs' level.

It's the 'general' aspects of one's life that sort of assigns someone to a certain level. A 'mountain man' , depending on what his specific 'thinking' is, may keep him at the 'safety needs' level on the general view, movie stars may be thought of at the 'esteem needs' level, scientists at the IAS (http://www.ias.edu/) are given the chance to try to stay in the 'need to know, understand' level (and above).

 

[Cyrus]

Are you single?

Sorry, you're not pretty enough for me neu.

 

[Cyrus]

If you're keeping score or waiting for the other person to make a move before you make a move, play chess, don't date. A relationship should be more like the way you interact with best friends, just more so. If you go out with your friends for a meal, do you pull out your calculators and divide up the cost to the penny and keep track of each favor they do for you so you know exactly how many favors to do for them in return? No (or at least I sure hope not).

To a certain extent, yes. When we go out we always split the bill to exactly what we ate. So if the bill is $100, and I ate $15, I'll put in $18-19 to include my share of the tip. And my friends will do likewise. If my friend doesn't have any cash on him at the time, then I'll cover for him. But usually the next time we go out he pays for my lunch. But again, its usually me, him, me, him, me him. Not him, him, him ...THEN me. In terms of order.

Rather, you have a general sense that there is give and take. My friends will sometimes pick up the tab for a meal for me, and if I offer to pay, the usual response is, "Don't worry about it, you can pick up the tab another time." And I do.

No, I never do that with my friends. It's always, how much is my portion of the bill? None of us say, "oh, I'll pay for this one guys."
I really don't understand why any of us should either. Were all grown adults who can pay for ourselves. Usually when we go out its 3 of us, sometimes as large as 6-7. No way is any of us going to pick up that kind of bill that's over $100.00.

 

[JasonRox]

I'll rewrite the list with exactly what's wrong with it, item for item.

Men

- Get job/house/car/career/etc.

I tell every girl I meet at a bar that I drive a trash truck. Its none of their damn business how much money I make, how big my house is, or what kind of car I drive.

So you lie?

Just don't answer the question or ask her why she's asking you such a question. The closest thing to a lie will say about myself is...

The one night at the bar a girl I met had lots of tattoos and told me she had 15. (Very attractive by the way.) Then she asked me if I had any, I just responded. "I have no tattoos... well actually, I have one but you'll have to find it. "

Note: I do lie about my name sometimes if I'm not interested at all. I've had too many people adding me on Facebook that I don't know. Or even sometimes if I drank too much, I tell them where I work and they come to my work. (Seriously, I hate it.)

Other than that, I don't lie about myself or my intentions. If I want to just have fun, I will tell them straight up if they ask. I don't play games.

 

[JasonRox]

To a certain extent, yes. When we go out we always split the bill to exactly what we ate. So if the bill is $100, and I ate $15, I'll put in $18-19 to include my share of the tip. And my friends will do likewise. If my friend doesn't have any cash on him at the time, then I'll cover for him. But usually the next time we go out he pays for my lunch. But again, its usually me, him, me, him, me him. Not him, him, him ...THEN me. In terms of order.




No, I never do that with my friends. It's always, how much is my portion of the bill? None of us say, "oh, I'll pay for this one guys."
I really don't understand why any of us should either. Were all grown adults who can pay for ourselves. Usually when we go out its 3 of us, sometimes as large as 6-7. No way is any of us going to pick up that kind of bill that's over $100.00.

I've paid for friends. I don't say anything like... "You can cover me next time."

If you're going to keep track of how much is being spent, then don't bother and just split accordingly. I don't buy gifts for birthday's, christmas or any particular event, but I do generous things. I don't need too. You have to realize that I'm not doing it to be nice or friendly. I just do it.

Note: Don't remember paying for a girl though.

 

[Cyrus]

So you lie?

Just don't answer the question or ask her why she's asking you such a question. The closest thing to a lie will say about myself is...

The one night at the bar a girl I met had lots of tattoos and told me she had 15. (Very attractive by the way.) Then she asked me if I had any, I just responded. "I have no tattoos... well actually, I have one but you'll have to find it. "

Note: I do lie about my name sometimes if I'm not interested at all. I've had too many people adding me on Facebook that I don't know. Or even sometimes if I drank too much, I tell them where I work and they come to my work. (Seriously, I hate it.)

Other than that, I don't lie about myself or my intentions. If I want to just have fun, I will tell them straight up if they ask. I don't play games.

Its mostly for my own personal enjoyment. I love seeing the look on their face when I tell them I'm a trash man. Eventually I tell them I'm a grad student, but that's usually after they catch on that I've been telling them one BS story after another. After a while they realize, wait a minute...hes been telling me nothing but crap this whole time. Then they REALLY want to know what I actually do. Its pretty fun, you should try it sometime. But I never tell them the first time they ask me what I really do. I like to judge their character by seeing their reaction to me being a trash man first.

I never lie about myself though.

 

[Cyrus]

I've paid for friends. I don't say anything like... "You can cover me next time."

If you're going to keep track of how much is being spent, then don't bother and just split accordingly. I don't buy gifts for birthday's, christmas or any particular event, but I do generous things. I don't need too. You have to realize that I'm not doing it to be nice or friendly. I just do it.

Note: Don't remember paying for a girl though.

Yeah, I don't buy gifts either...and I really don't like people buying me a gift for my birthday. I don't see the point in buying something for someone as a sign of friendship. "Hi, I am materialistic. I bought this for you! "

 

[JasonRox]

Its mostly for my own personal enjoyment. I love seeing the look on their face when I tell them I'm a trash man. Eventually I tell them I'm a grad student, but that's usually after they catch on that I've been telling them one BS story after another. After a while they realize, wait a minute...hes been telling me nothing but crap this whole time. Then they REALLY want to know what I actually do. Its pretty fun, you should try it sometime. But I never tell them the first time they ask me what I really do. I like to judge their character by seeing their reaction to me being a trash man first.

I never lie about myself though.

That's actually pretty interesting. I'm not sure exactly what I do. I guess I'm a teaser sometimes. I can be a huge flirt. Not quite sure actually. I don't focus on the girl either.

That girl with the tattoos said she was going to give her number to me and I was like... "Sounds good. Let's go dance." Then I left to hang out with my friends. She came to find me before leaving to give me her number. Haha, my friends were like... what the?

Also, I don't give my number out. I only take numbers. If the girl also only takes numbers, then I basically just say... "That's too bad because you're not getting mine." By doing this, you decide whether you want to see her or not.

 

[Cyrus]

That's actually pretty interesting. I'm not sure exactly what I do. I guess I'm a teaser sometimes. I can be a huge flirt. Not quite sure actually. I don't focus on the girl either.

That girl with the tattoos said she was going to give her number to me and I was like... "Sounds good. Let's go dance." Then I left to hang out with my friends. She came to find me before leaving to give me her number. Haha, my friends were like... what the?

Also, I don't give my number out. I only take numbers. If the girl also only takes numbers, then I basically just say... "That's too bad because you're not getting mine." By doing this, you decide whether you want to see her or not.

Im opposite. I give her my number and tell her, "im not going to call you, so if you want to talk to me you're going to have to call me".

 

[JasonRox]

Yeah, I don't buy gifts either...and I really don't like people buying me a gift for my birthday. I don't see the point in buying something for someone as a sign of friendship. "Hi, I am materialistic. I bought this for you! "

Yeah, it's really annoying. I also don't buy for family though.

People are very materialistic. Even some guys, if they spot a girl, they will be like... she's mine. But then if you end up getting her number or she likes you, you're buddy gets mad and says... "She's mine man, don't be a jackass." As if he owns her or something.

Note: I no longer have friends like that; I left those friends years ago. My confidence around girls and within myself or anything in general has got so much better with friends like that around. Most of all my friends all females (maybe except 3-4) and that's basically something most guys dream of in high school and college. The problem is that people cling before even meeting the person (like I explained to earlier with my past friends).

 

[JasonRox]

Im opposite. I give her my number and tell her, "im not going to call you, so if you want to talk to me you're going to have to call me".

No way, some of them call when you don't want them to. It worked well sometimes because I always said... (Say it's Friday night.) "Call me Sunday night." I hated it when they called me for Saturday night. Or Saturday morning!

Both has it's up and downs. I guess it depends how I feel. (To be honest, nothing I do is planned.)

 

[Jordan Joab]

Im opposite. I give her my number and tell her, "im not going to call you, so if you want to talk to me you're going to have to call me".

I'd bet about 1 out of 10 call you


~J

 

[Moonbear]

I'd bet about 1 out of 10 call you

You'd bet that good of odds? I was wondering if he ever gets a call. I mean, when you tell her, "I'm not going to call you..." that sounds a lot like, "I'm not interested, get lost." Probably only the weirdos who don't get the hint would call.

 

[rewebster]

You'd bet that good of odds? I was wondering if he ever gets a call. I mean, when you tell her, "I'm not going to call you..." that sounds a lot like, "I'm not interested, get lost." Probably only the weirdos who don't get the hint would call.

do you mean desparate, and insecure of why they were rejected?

 

[Cyrus]

I'd bet about 1 out of 10 call you


~J

Not only did she call me, she invited me to see a band the next night and paid for my ticket.

 

[Cyrus]

You'd bet that good of odds? I was wondering if he ever gets a call. I mean, when you tell her, "I'm not going to call you..." that sounds a lot like, "I'm not interested, get lost." Probably only the weirdos who don't get the hint would call.

Thats because you don't know the situational context, and the way I say these things. Do you really think I am in a girls face saying, "IM NOT GOING TO CALL YOU"...come on guys, let's be reasonable here.

It seems you all have never heard of playing hard to get?

I know its hard to believe, but I know what I am doing. Also, keep in mind the area were talking about. I don't know how the people are in west virginia, or any other part of the country you're from. But here in washington dc, if you try to talk and act nice to a girl at a bar scene, you're going to get blown away so fast you won't know what hit you. OR, she'll just use you for some free drinks and then toss you away. I see it happen alllllllll the time. What may seem 'extreme' to you, is normal to me, and for good reason.

All of this depends on the person I am talking to at the time. You have to gauge how much you can get away with, how 'nice' you have to be to her. Some girls you just can't be nice to. Others you can be nice to. It depends on how they interact with you during the conversation, body language, the subject of the conversation.

For example, I'll even say, 'this conversation is going no where, talk about something else that isn't so boring'...they laugh and say yeah, you're right and we talk about something else. I've never had anyone get bent out of shape. I think you guys read statements I make above as, 'HEY YOU, CHANGE THIS GOD DAMN TOPIC NOW', when that's not at all how it sounds when I say it to you in person.

 

[whitay]

Why are you playing games with these girls?

If I was a girl, I'd appreciate someone open, honest and upfront.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Why are you playing games with these girls?

If I was a girl, I'd appreciate someone open, honest and upfront.

He is right in some aspects. You can't be nice to certain women, you don't want to tell that chick your income, you can't hold the door for this girl, etc. I see relationships as "hit or miss."

What irks me is the double standard on honesty/openness many women have. You need to tell them where you are but if you ask them where they are going you are "not letting her breathe." My personal favorite is when you go out to buy junk food and the wife/girlfriend tells you she wants "whatever" well you bring "whatever" and they get mad at you. How about specifying what you want? I'm not a damn psychic, I don't know what your brain wants to eat at all times!

This is one of the many reasons if I get divorced I will never marry again. I'll probably try to knock out a lawyer/doctor type chick to have at least 1 kid but other than marriage only needs to be experienced once.


~J

 

[whitay]

Moonbear and Evo, do either of you do any of these things that the others have mentioned?

In asking this I am not saying that I don't believe there are such females but what I do know is that I have many friends who arn't like this, in the slightest. And on the other hand I have quite a few friends are the epitome of what you have said. These behaviors are prevalent due to simple day to day interactions.

Knocking her out probably isn't the best idea (I think it's a crime, in most countries) but I know what you wanted to say. If this is what you expect then I am sure this is how it will be for you. If that is what you want?

 

[Cyrus]

Why are you playing games with these girls?

If I was a girl, I'd appreciate someone open, honest and upfront.

No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).

 

[Jordan Joab]

Moonbear and Evo, do either of you do any of these things that the others have mentioned?

In asking this I am not saying that I don't believe there are such females but what I do know is that I have many friends who arn't like this, in the slightest. And on the other hand I have quite a few friends are the epitome of what you have said. These behaviors are prevalent due to simple day to day interactions.

Knocking her out probably isn't the best idea (I think it's a crime, in most countries) but I know what you wanted to say. If this is what you expect then I am sure this is how it will be for you. If that is what you want?

My comment came out wrong. What I meant to say was, that I would try to find a doctor/lawyer interested in having a child. I simply wouldn't marry the woman. I would live with her but I wouldn't marry her.


~J

 

[Jordan Joab]

Moonbear and Evo, do either of you do any of these things that the others have mentioned?

In asking this I am not saying that I don't believe there are such females but what I do know is that I have many friends who arn't like this, in the slightest. And on the other hand I have quite a few friends are the epitome of what you have said. These behaviors are prevalent due to simple day to day interactions.

Knocking her out probably isn't the best idea (I think it's a crime, in most countries) but I know what you wanted to say. If this is what you expect then I am sure this is how it will be for you. If that is what you want?

My comment came out wrong. What I meant to say was, that I would try to find a doctor/lawyer interested in having a child. I simply wouldn't marry the woman. I would live with her but I wouldn't marry her.

and yes, it is what I would want. I'm not giving my freedom away, ever.

~J

 

[whitay]

My comment came out wrong. What I meant to say was, that I would try to find a doctor/lawyer interested in having a child. I simply wouldn't marry the woman. I would live with her but I wouldn't marry her.

and yes, it is what I would want. I'm not giving my freedom away, ever.

~J

Ahh I see what you mean. I personally don't believe in marriage either but for other reasons. Simply what does my love for another have to do with God, Jesus and all other innards of religion? And what gives religion the right to sanction marriage over a the workings of a defacto relationship. I don't think the intention of marriage is to constrain but I do think people feel more constrained and obligated when married. But what would I know.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Only if you're into dating insecure psychos. If they're only doing things to cling and keep you from wandering off, do both of you a favor and leave. Relationships formed on a premise of threats of leaving aren't healthy relationships, they're a form of psychological manipulation/abuse, and it only works on the insecure.

Women must be made different where you come from. Have you seriously never noticed that just about every other woman you meet is [or has been] in a relationship where their partner treated them like crap or were indifferent towards them yet they stayed in the relationship anyway and did things for him all the time? And most men do this on a smaller scale so that you would likely not realize it at first. In various small ways they implant the suggestion in their partners head that they better be good or he just might not be around any more.

First off, good that she's an ex, because by that behavior she should be an ex. Second, I bolded a key sentence there. It's not that she was no longer motivated to do anything for you, it's that she never did anything in the first place, and was just finding excuses for it.

She did things. It was just rare and mostly lame. At least twice that I knew of she decided to randomly buy something for me as a gift then afterwards wondered why she bought it since it was not anything I would like and returned it. Anyway.. all of this had an underlying cause. She just wasn't interested but kept lying to herself and believing that she was.


And I'm not sure if you missed it or just were not responding to me but I don't keep score. But like I said its really hard to not notice when someone is not reciprocating in a manner that would suggest they are actually interested in you and care about you.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Ahh I see what you mean. I personally don't believe in marriage either but for other reasons. Simply what does my love for another have to do with God, Jesus and all other innards of religion? And what gives religion the right to sanction marriage over a the workings of a defacto relationship. I don't think the intention of marriage is to constrain but I do think people feel more constrained and obligated when married. But what would I know.

Whatever the purpose of marriage, I don't think it's necessary anymore. Now, I'm still married and I'll try my hardest to make it work but if it fails, then that is it.

Actually, I think marriage is for old people. They do need companionship. Young people, however, should stay away from it. Live life, get as many women as you can in bed (wear your hard hat), go out, party, get drunk, etc. etc.

I don't even want to think the number of women I've passed up just because I was married.


~J

 

[Moonbear]

I personally don't believe in marriage either but for other reasons. Simply what does my love for another have to do with God, Jesus and all other innards of religion? And what gives religion the right to sanction marriage over a the workings of a defacto relationship.

You don't have to get married in a church or as part of a religious ceremony. You can go to a courthouse and get married by a justice of the peace in a civil ceremony. Then it's purely for legal purposes (taxation, inheritance, medical decision-making in the event of incapacitation of one partner).

Women must be made different where you come from. Have you seriously never noticed that just about every other woman you meet is [or has been] in a relationship where their partner treated them like crap or were indifferent towards them yet they stayed in the relationship anyway and did things for him all the time? And most men do this on a smaller scale so that you would likely not realize it at first. In various small ways they implant the suggestion in their partners head that they better be good or he just might not be around any more.

I really don't see it. Or rather it's rare, and when it happens, we all tell her to just dump the jerk, which usually happens soon enough. Do men really tell each other this is the way to get a woman? No wonder women spend so much time complaining about all the jerks they meet. Of course, you reap what you sow. If you treat women like crap, they'll treat you like crap too. That's not a good way to develop a decent relationship.

She did things. It was just rare and mostly lame. At least twice that I knew of she decided to randomly buy something for me as a gift then afterwards wondered why she bought it since it was not anything I would like and returned it. Anyway.. all of this had an underlying cause. She just wasn't interested but kept lying to herself and believing that she was.

Sounds more like you were the one to fall into the trap of hanging on in spite of being treated like crap.

And I'm not sure if you missed it or just were not responding to me but I don't keep score. But like I said its really hard to not notice when someone is not reciprocating in a manner that would suggest they are actually interested in you and care about you.

Yeah, I was responding to the other posts above yours with those comments. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JasonRox]

Thats because you don't know the situational context, and the way I say these things. Do you really think I am in a girls face saying, "IM NOT GOING TO CALL YOU"...come on guys, let's be reasonable here.

It seems you all have never heard of playing hard to get?

I know its hard to believe, but I know what I am doing. Also, keep in mind the area were talking about. I don't know how the people are in west virginia, or any other part of the country you're from. But here in washington dc, if you try to talk and act nice to a girl at a bar scene, you're going to get blown away so fast you won't know what hit you. OR, she'll just use you for some free drinks and then toss you away. I see it happen alllllllll the time. What may seem 'extreme' to you, is normal to me, and for good reason.

All of this depends on the person I am talking to at the time. You have to gauge how much you can get away with, how 'nice' you have to be to her. Some girls you just can't be nice to. Others you can be nice to. It depends on how they interact with you during the conversation, body language, the subject of the conversation.

For example, I'll even say, 'this conversation is going no where, talk about something else that isn't so boring'...they laugh and say yeah, you're right and we talk about something else. I've never had anyone get bent out of shape. I think you guys read statements I make above as, 'HEY YOU, CHANGE THIS GOD DAMN TOPIC NOW', when that's not at all how it sounds when I say it to you in person.

Haha, I just started laughing about this.

I've been out the girl would pay for me. Or if I'm not drinking, they will offer to get drinks for me.

Yeah, I've said rude things to girls and dirty things. It all depends on the conversation. I once told a girl right up front she's a *****. She still sends me messages to hang out and have fun. :P (She has a boyfriend.)

 

[Moonbear]

No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).

That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

 

[JasonRox]

That is about the stupidest remark I've seen so far. Sorry, no other way to put that. How about when you actually have a girlfriend you tell us how it goes? Otherwise, you know a lot about how NOT to develop a relationship. If someone is bored with you in 5 minutes, you're probably a horribly boring person, it has nothing to do with being open, honest or upfront. Are your conversational skills truly that limited that you have to fabricate stories in order to keep someone's attention?

How about having some respect for the women who are telling you that you have it quite wrong about what women want? Perhaps, just perhaps, women know better than you what we want.

Yeah, that's I meant. I'm honest and upfront with anything. (I mentionned this earlier.)

I've got atleast one number everytime I've gone out in the past like 6 weeks. I highly doubt I'm coming off as boring and dull. (Most girls I meet and get along with are those I meet outside the bar taking air or in restaurants and random places.) I just have fun at bars.

 

[The_Professional]

No, if you were a girl and met someone open honest and upfront you'd be bored out of your mind with that guy in five minutes (I'm talking about someone you just met).

Honesty is good, but you can't be open about everything in your life. Honesty and openness are different things which is why they're spelled differently. If it's not going to raise interest level why bring it up. Watch Cary Grant movies and copy his banter.

 

[lisab]

Whew, reading all this makes me sooooo glad I'm married and don't have to date anymore...what a bunch of head games!