Isentropic efficiency of a pump

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the isentropic efficiency of a pump, specifically focusing on the determination of the enthalpy at a specific state (h4s) using thermodynamic tables. Participants explore methods for interpolation between tabular values for compressed liquids and clarify the necessary steps to find the required enthalpy values.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the formula for isentropic efficiency and the known states of the pump, seeking guidance on finding h4s.
  • Another participant suggests that interpolation between the 50 bar and 75 bar tables may be necessary due to the absence of a 60 bar table.
  • There is a discussion about the adequacy of the tables available, with a recommendation to use NIST tables for better accuracy.
  • One participant attempts to find the corresponding enthalpy for a given entropy value but questions whether they have looked up the entropy correctly.
  • Another participant points out that the entropy values for compressed liquid at the specified pressure can be found on a different page of the table.
  • One participant shares their interpolation results for h4s but ends up with a negative percentage for isentropic efficiency, raising concerns about their calculations.
  • There is a correction regarding the expected range for h4s based on the interpolation results, indicating a potential error in the calculations.
  • A participant revisits their formula for interpolation, suggesting that the issue may lie there, and later confirms that the correction resolved their problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the interpolation process and the accuracy of the values used. There is no consensus on the correct value for h4s until later corrections are made, indicating that the discussion remains somewhat unresolved until the final formula is validated.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on thermodynamic tables, which may have limitations in terms of available pressure values. The discussion highlights the need for careful attention to detail in interpolation and the potential for errors in calculations.

jdawg
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Homework Statement


Find the isentropic efficiency of the pump: effpump=(h4s-h3)/(h4-h3)

state 3: p3=1.5 bar, h3=467.11, x3=0, v3=1.0528/1000 m3/kg ,s3=1.4336 kJ/kg*K, T3=111.4 deg C

state 4: p4=60 bar, h4=474.14, compressed liquid
state 4s: p4=60 bar, s3=s4s

The values in red are the ones I wasn't given, I looked them up in the tables.
How do I find the h4s value?? I tried going to the compressed liquid tables and looking up the enthalpy at 60 bar, but my tables only have 50 bar and 75 bar. So am I supposed to interpolate between those two tables?

Do I need to find the temperatures at states 3 and 4 before I start trying to interpolate? I'm pretty lost on this problem.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

 

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jdawg said:

Homework Statement


Find the isentropic efficiency of the pump: effpump=(h4s-h3)/(h4-h3)

state 3: p3=1.5 bar, h3=467.11, x3=0, v3=1.0528/1000 m3/kg ,s3=1.4336 kJ/kg*K, T3=111.4 deg C

state 4: p4=60 bar, h4=474.14, compressed liquid
state 4s: p4=60 bar, s3=s4s

The values in red are the ones I wasn't given, I looked them up in the tables.
How do I find the h4s value?? I tried going to the compressed liquid tables and looking up the enthalpy at 60 bar, but my tables only have 50 bar and 75 bar. So am I supposed to interpolate between those two tables?

Do I need to find the temperatures at states 3 and 4 before I start trying to interpolate? I'm pretty lost on this problem.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

25 bar sounds like a big step between tabular values, even for compressed liquid. I would recommend you get a better table to use for the values of compressed liquid at 60 bar.

The NIST publishes some good tables on-line for this very purpose:

http://www.nist.gov/srd/upload/NISTIR5078-Tab3.pdf

Try this table and see if it helps. If you have any further questions, please post them.
 
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That table is a lot better! So s3=s4s=1.4336 kJ/kg*K. So I went and I looked at the 6MPa table and the lowest entropy value is 6.0703. I thought I could just find the entropy value of 1.4336 and find the corresponding enthalpy in that pressure table. Did I maybe look up the entropy at state 3 incorrectly?
 
jdawg said:
That table is a lot better! So s3=s4s=1.4336 kJ/kg*K. So I went and I looked at the 6MPa table and the lowest entropy value is 6.0703. I thought I could just find the entropy value of 1.4336 and find the corresponding enthalpy in that pressure table. Did I maybe look up the entropy at state 3 incorrectly?
You're looking at the wrong page. Go back to the previous page, and you'll find lower entropy values for compressed liquid at P = 6.0 MPa.
 
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Oh ok! So I tried to interpolate between s1=1.4139 h1=465.68 and s2=1.4686 and h2=486.77
I found h4s=458.1

I plugged all my values into the isentropic efficiency formula and wound up with a negative percentage... Did I maybe interpolate incorrectly?
 
jdawg said:
Oh ok! So I tried to interpolate between s1=1.4139 h1=465.68 and s2=1.4686 and h2=486.77
I found h4s=458.1

I plugged all my values into the isentropic efficiency formula and wound up with a negative percentage... Did I maybe interpolate incorrectly?
Yes, you messed up. h = 458.1 is less than h = 465.68. The correct value for h is going to be between 465.68 and 486.77.
 
Hmm... What you said makes total sense. I keep getting 458.1 for my h4s value though.

y=y1+(x1-x)[(y2-y1)/(x2-x1)]
letting enthalpy=y and entropy=x
h4s=465.68+(1.4139-1.4336)[(486.77-465.68)/(1.4686-1.4139)]

I'm almost positive I'm using all the correct values...
 
Haha oops... I think it was my formula, let me see if that fixes it.
 
That was it! Thanks so much for your help!
 

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