Isotropic antenna Transmit and Receive power

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of path loss for isotropic antennas using free-space and plane-Earth models at a frequency of 800MHz. Participants explore the relationship between transmit power, receive power, and path loss over varying distances from 1m to 40Km, with a focus on deriving equations and plotting results.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equations for free-space and plane-Earth models, noting the simplification due to isotropic antennas having gains of 1.
  • The participant expresses difficulty in determining the transmit power \( P_T \) and attempts to derive it from the relationship between receive power \( P_R \) and path loss \( L_P \).
  • Another participant questions the definition of \( L_P \) and its relevance to the problem, suggesting it represents the minimum signal level required at the receiving antenna.
  • A later reply clarifies that \( L_P \) is related to the distance between antennas and the wavelength of the transmitted signal, providing a rearranged equation for \( L_P \).
  • One participant expresses gratitude for the clarification, indicating it aids in solving their problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to agree on the definitions and relationships involving path loss and the parameters involved, but the initial participant's struggle with deriving \( P_T \) indicates some uncertainty remains in the calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved steps in deriving \( P_T \) and assumptions regarding the minimum signal level required for reliable communication.

SPYazdani
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Homework Statement


Plot and compare the path loss (dB) for the free-space and plane-Earth models at 800MHz vs distance on a logarithmic scale for distances from 1m to 40Km. Assume that the antennas are isotropic and have a height of 10m


Homework Equations



Free space: P_R=\frac{P_T G_T G_R}{L_P}

Plane Earth: P_R=P_TG_TG_R(\frac{h_Th_R}{R^2})^2

Two isotropic antennas separated by a distance R\epsilon[1m,40km] at frequency f=800MHz.




The Attempt at a Solution


Isotropic antennae have G_T=G_R=1. So That simplifies P_R=\frac{P_T G_T G_R}{L_P} = P_R=\frac{P_T}{L_P}
L_P=(\frac{R4\pi}{\lambda})^2.

I'm solving the question for 1m for the free space model, then once I have that, plotting it is easy in Excel.

I'm stuck on finding P_T. I tried deriving an equation for P_Tby substituting L_P=(\frac{R4\pi}{\lambda})^2 into P_R=\frac{P_T}{L_P} but that lead me nowhere. At least I don't know what the answer means.

Here's what happened.

P_R=\frac{P_T}{R^24\pi}A_e
P_R=\frac{P_T}{L_P}
L_P=(\frac{R4\pi}{\lambda})^2
\frac{P_T}{R^24\pi}A_e=\frac{P_T}{(\frac{R4\pi}{λ})^2}
Then a bunch of cancellation on both sides and finally
Ae 4\pi = \lambda^2

Help! I don't know how to find P_T
 
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What is Lp? How does it relate to what you are asked for?
 
marcusl said:
What is Lp? How does it relate to what you are asked for?

For reliable communication, Lp is the minimum signal level required at the receiving antenna. It's a ratio of \frac{P_T (mW)}{P_R(mW)}. The distance R = \frac{\lambda\sqrt{L_P}}{4\pi}. Rearranging and solving for L_P = (\frac{4R\pi}{\lambda})^2 implies the loss is related to the distance separated by the antennas as well as the wavelength of the transmitted signal.

Thanks for pointing that out. I can now solve my problem :D
 
You're welcome!
 

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