News Jeremiah Wright: Why does Mr. Obama support him?

[Evo]

Well, it seems there is a strong emotional bond there.

Maybe Wright was his first black male role model. His dad left him when he was just two years old. That's kind of pop-psych, but he met this guy when he was in his twenties and I don't know if he had much contact with adult black males up until then.

That could be a very large part of it. I've read so many articles lately I can't remember where I read what, but he said that his white grandmother was afraid of black men and afraid of walking down a street where there were black people and that she would use racial slurs that would make him cringe, but that she loved him. I don't know his lineage, was his white grandmother married to a white man?

I haven't heard anyone, yet, say they have heard Obama say anything that would indicate he agrees with Wright. If he does agree with him, I can't imagine he could go through life and never tell anyone outside of church what his core beliefs are.

Good point again, what I've read is that he "didn't agree", and the father figure thing could be the reason what he didn't speak out against what he was hearing.

 

[Astronuc]

It's a no win situation for Obama, as you have pointed out. I'd like to hear him say more on what he does and does not agree with and just how far his devotion to this man goes. I've broken off long time friendships with people once I found out they were not what I thought. But that's not the case with Obama. He said that he heard these views in church from him and "didn't agree", but said nothing. Now that was "reported". I don't know how much of what is "reported" is true. So it seems like Obama was aware and agreed with, or at least condoned this guys views. I'm digging through everything I can to try to get a feel for what is going on. His speech and his actions aren't jelling for me. That doesn't mean he might not still be the best candidate, it's just that he's not what he appeared to be. I'm disappointed.

Does this help?

On My Faith and My Church
by Barack Obama
Posted March 14, 2008

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

. . . .

IIRC, Obama talked of his maternal grandmother during his speech. Obama's mom is white and the father was African, an immigrant from Kenya.

Obama's father and mother
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama,_Sr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham

Sorry about the Wikipedia references, but they'll have to do in a pinch.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Don't worry about it. My friend used Wikipedia as a source for one of his papers (we both go to the University of Washington) and it was accepted. Therefore, it's good. ;)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

As for the impact on Obama's campaign: I was told that when it was announced that he would be here in Oregon, the tickets sold out within minutes.

Still may go see him in Eugene though...if I feel like standing in line for three hours - no tickets required.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Who's opening for him?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Who's opening for him?

Opening what, his beer?

Just kidding. I have no idea.

 

[TVP45]

You said the article was from last year. Just wanted to make sure you knew his waffling was 2 years ago, no telling where his loyalties lie now. I'm not for McCain as I am afraid of him succumbing to the religious right to gain a stronger hold with the Republican party

I don't trust any politician that touts religion. I am leary of Obama now because he seems to genuinely feel influenced by religion and racial issues he seems to be tied to that I wasn't aware of before. I thought before that it was a non-issue, now I have serious doubts. I'm not sure what to think of what is really in the back of his mind. I don't know if it is an issue as far as the Presidency goes. But I just have this innate distrust of anyone that's very openly religious as he seems to be. It's beyond that, he seems to not only look to others for guidance, but give himself over to it.

I haven't seen Hillary throwing religion around, have I just missed that? Hopefully there is one candidate that can stand on their own? Maybe not.

Senator Clinton is a Methodist. We are {this is a generality and is not true of all Methodists}, in the words of St. Paul, a "luke-warm" denomination of non-evangelizing, non-dogmatic, do-gooders. Our typical response to war is to collect bottled water for the troops and to knit blankets for the wounded. Our response to poverty is to gather used clothing barrels for Appalachia. We have a social principle of separation between state and church and we rarely talk about religion in public, possibly because we have so little dogma and possibly because we are so undemonstrative (old, old Methodist joke - Q: Why are we opposed to sex? A: Because it frequently leads to laughing and dancing).

 

[RonL]

Senator Clinton is a Methodist. We are {this is a generality and is not true of all Methodists}, in the words of St. Paul, a "luke-warm" denomination of non-evangelizing, non-dogmatic, do-gooders. Our typical response to war is to collect bottled water for the troops and to knit blankets for the wounded. Our response to poverty is to gather used clothing barrels for Appalachia. We have a social principle of separation between state and church and we rarely talk about religion in public, possibly because we have so little dogma and possibly because we are so undemonstrative (old, old Methodist joke - Q: Why are we opposed to sex? A: Because it frequently leads to laughing and dancing).

In my opinion, a reason why there is so much confusion in the world over religion, and politics.

Remove the words ("in the words of St. Paul" ) which would lead someone to believe that the St. Paul in the bible is describing the methodist church as "luke-warm".

Maybe I'm overreacting, but this is a play on words that shifts focus to where it does not belong.

And yes the old joke if very cute.

 

[Astronuc]

Senator Clinton is a Methodist. We are {this is a generality and is not true of all Methodists}, in the words of St. Paul, a "luke-warm" denomination of non-evangelizing, non-dogmatic, do-gooders. Our typical response to war is to collect bottled water for the troops and to knit blankets for the wounded. Our response to poverty is to gather used clothing barrels for Appalachia. We have a social principle of separation between state and church and we rarely talk about religion in public, possibly because we have so little dogma and possibly because we are so undemonstrative (old, old Methodist joke - Q: Why are we opposed to sex? A: Because it frequently leads to laughing and dancing).

I grew up in the Methodist church, and my father and his father were Methodist ministers. I've never heard that joke. Of course, there are now several flavors of Methodism, which vary across a spectrum of political views.

 

[Gokul43201]

Every biography of Clinton out there describes her as deeply religious. But biographies are a long read. The most revealing investigation of HRC's recent religious history that I've read is found in this article: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

 

[TVP45]

In my opinion, a reason why there is so much confusion in the world over religion, and politics.

Remove the words ("in the words of St. Paul" ) which would lead someone to believe that the St. Paul in the bible is describing the methodist church as "luke-warm".

Maybe I'm overreacting, but this is a play on words that shifts focus to where it does not belong.

And yes the old joke if very cute.

I take your point. Note that the exact words were ", in the words of St. Paul,", making that a parenthetical phrase which changes the meaning but little. That is fortunate since I made a booboo and ascribed the words to St. Paul rather than St. John. (I didn't think it worthwhile to walk over to the National Aviary and retrieve my sole remaining neuron, so you see what happens...).

 

[rbj]

I'll make a bold prediction here. Obama is finished.

according to the delegate count at the NY Times, for Hillary to surpass Obama, she will need in the rest of the primary campaign and superdelegates, to get 41 delegates for every 30 that Obama gets. she needs 554 and Obama needs 405. it's still a little early, but with so few left, with Obama ahead by 149 delegates presently, with the Richardson endorsement siphoning Clinton's earlier Hispanic support, i think your bold prediction is simply not wise.

but anything can happen, maybe they'll turn up that Obama eats babies or something like that.

wow! every commentator i heard that wasn't a dittohead or on Faux News said that Obama hit it out of the park. terms like "an historical event".

being bold sometimes is profitable, but not always safe nor always wise.

Didn't you just provide your own other side of the coin?

NO! not how you put it. Russ, your name ends with an "s", not an "h". please don't debate (disingenuously) like the guy who is, but for one letter, your namesake.

Of course the liberal part of the media said Obama hit it out of the park. They're liberal! And of course the conservative part said he didn't. They're conservative!

Yes, those are the two possibilities!

No, there are (many) more than two possibilities. I was writing about non-liberal commentators saying that Obama hit it out of the park last Tuesday. And you injected meaning into what i said that was not either what i said nor what i meant. that's something a Rush might do, but Russ is better than Rush, no? (please don't tell us you're a dittohead. or O'Reily. i have so much more respect for you than that.)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I was going to try to make the Eugene Obama rally until I saw the lines forming hours ahead of time... and until I heard that the first people in line were there at 5AM this morning - the rally starts at 9PM!

 

[lisab]

I was going to try to make the Eugene Obama rally until I saw the lines forming hours ahead of time... and until I heard that the first people in line were there at 5AM this morning.

It would have been really amazing to see the Portland rally this morning, with Richardson there!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yeah I would have loved to have been there. Did you see the size of the crowd??!

 

[lisab]

Yes, that's wonderful! And the energy of the crowd was so intense, it really came across in the video.

 

[Astronuc]

Bill Richardson on Obama

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/03/21/king.richardson.intv.cnn

Richardson looks good with a beard.

CNN discussion on the Endoresment of Obama by Richardson
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/03/21/king.richardson.intv.cnn


Clinton's campaign expresses 'sour grapes'.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Q: Why are we opposed to sex? A: Because it frequently leads to laughing and dancing).

Funny!

 

[rbj]

I am convinced that this is an historic campaign and candidate (following an historically dishonest, unjust, hypocritical, and incompetent administration) . 4 years ago i worked on the Dean campaign (and even got to introduce the Gov to a town hall meeting in NH during the primary week), and although Dean sort of softened up the place with his insurgency of honesty, he wasn't as careful (nor as charismatic) as Obama. But, as impolitic as some of the things he said, Dean was spot on on practically every issue then. Being more interested in "policy" rather than "politics", when the current campaign season began, I originally sort of leaned toward Richardson, but I started realizing that one necessary ingredient for a leader, besides the knowledge of what are the best policies and the desire, capacity, and where-with-all to realize such, besides all that, what is needed is some measure of charisma, which I have to admit, Gov. Bill had little of. But Barack has it in spades. This charisma is necessary for the practical reason of inspiring people to follow the leadership.

I was hopeful, yet burned 4 years ago. Now I am again. Am I just being a glutton for punishment, or are we, again, looking at an historical moment? A new JFK? If so, or in any case, I hope his security is really/really tight, because gifted visionaries like this often scare up nasty enemies.

 

[TVP45]

I was hopeful, yet burned 4 years ago. Now I am again. Am I just being a glutton for punishment, or are we, again, looking at an historical moment? A new JFK? If so, or in any case, I hope his security is really/really tight, because gifted visionaries like this often scare up nasty enemies.

That thought scares the living hell out of a lot of us.

 

[TVP45]

I grew up in the Methodist church, and my father and his father were Methodist ministers. I've never heard that joke. Of course, there are now several flavors of Methodism, which vary across a spectrum of political views.

You're absolutely right. That was pure hegemonic arrogance on my part. I should have said United Methodist; many of the smaller Methodist denominations retain their fervor.

 

[lisab]

I was hopeful, yet burned 4 years ago. Now I am again. Am I just being a glutton for punishment, or are we, again, looking at an historical moment? A new JFK? If so, or in any case, I hope his security is really/really tight, because gifted visionaries like this often scare up nasty enemies.

I'm with you on this, rbj. I want so badly to see this country take a turn for the better, to see the cynicism die down.

 

[Gokul43201]

For comparison, a sneak peek at the Republican spiritual guides and political endorsers (but frauds and nutjobs, nevertheless): Parsley, Hagee, Falwell, Robertson, et al.

Rod Parsley:
(the last 10 seconds of that clip are priceless)

John Hagee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA&feature=related

Jerry Falwell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I&feature=related

Pat Robertson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZENuGoDfu8&feature=related
(what's really scary about this is how kids are indoctrinated and destroyed by this nonsense)

The only person I've heard that doesn't veil his opinions on these scoundrels, is Christopher Hitchens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52yTqMcwuQE&feature=related

The discussion on racism and bigotry in America goes hand in hand with the issue of religion and the role of religious figureheads. And these issues are addressed not only through a filter of political correctness, but are additionally dosed with a philter of delusion.

 

[mheslep]

For comparison, a sneak peek at the Republican spiritual guides and political endorsers (but frauds and nutjobs, nevertheless): Parsley, Hagee, Falwell, Robertson, et al.

Rod Parsley:
(the last 10 seconds of that clip are priceless)

John Hagee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA&feature=related

Jerry Falwell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I&feature=related

Pat Robertson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZENuGoDfu8&feature=related
(what's really scary about this is how kids are indoctrinated and destroyed by this nonsense)

The only person I've heard that doesn't veil his opinions on these scoundrels, is Christopher Hitchens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52yTqMcwuQE&feature=related

The discussion on racism and bigotry in America goes hand in hand with the issue of religion and the role of religious figureheads. And these issues are addressed not only through a filter of political correctness, but are additionally dosed with a philter of delusion.

Who is to say these people are the Republican spiritual guides any more than Rev Wright or Rev Sharpton or Rev Jackson are the Democratic spiritual guides? -Especially after McCain denounced Falwell.

 

[TVP45]

For comparison, a sneak peek at the Republican spiritual guides and political endorsers (but frauds and nutjobs, nevertheless): Parsley, Hagee, Falwell, Robertson, et al.

Rod Parsley:
(the last 10 seconds of that clip are priceless)

John Hagee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA&feature=related

Jerry Falwell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I&feature=related

Pat Robertson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZENuGoDfu8&feature=related
(what's really scary about this is how kids are indoctrinated and destroyed by this nonsense)

The only person I've heard that doesn't veil his opinions on these scoundrels, is Christopher Hitchens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52yTqMcwuQE&feature=related

The discussion on racism and bigotry in America goes hand in hand with the issue of religion and the role of religious figureheads. And these issues are addressed not only through a filter of political correctness, but are additionally dosed with a philter of delusion.

And, IMHO, it's worth looking at how a non-nutty religious group views politics.
www.rj.org
And, I am a Christian so I'm not in any sense promoting my own religion.

 

[Gokul43201]

Who is to say these people are the Republican spiritual guides any more than Rev Wright or Rev Sharpton or Rev Jackson are the Democratic spiritual guides?

I did not say that one group is more "the" than the other. What I did say though, was that while one group is required to denounce their pastors (and even that is not enough), the other gets away with embracing theirs.

-Especially after McCain denounced Falwell.

Before he took back his denouncement saying he "spoke in haste" and further clarifying that "Falwell is not an agent of intolerance"? The best thing that can be said about McCain for his reversal is that he is being politically opportunistic, having learned in 2000 that you can not win a Republican primary without sucking up to the evangelists.

McCain has also been campaigning with Hagee and Parsley, both of whom have endorsed him, and both of whose endorements, he has been honored to accept.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

America is under the curse of God

http://www.christianbook.com/html/authors/1603.html

I am very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today

- from Gokul's link

At least Obama's buddy doesn't think we are already damned!

The funny thing that I see in this bit about Wright is that the last thing that McCain would want is to get into a "who are YOUR friends and what have they said" contest.

It seems that Hagee can't decide why we are being punished. In Gokul's link he blames gays and the people of New Orleans for Katrina, but previously...

JOHN HAGEE, SEPTEMBER 18, 2005: I want to ask Washington a question. Is there a connection between the 9,000 Jewish refugees being forcibly removed from their homes in the Gaza Strip now living in tents and the thousands of Americans who have been expelled from their homes by this tremendous work of nature? Is there a connection there? If you've got a better answer, I'd like to hear it.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10052007/transcript1.html

Oh wait, but it may have been that he blamed gays for 911, and just New Orleanians for Katrina. I can't keep all of these curses straight!

 

[D H]

America is under the curse of God

That's almost right! I would say "America is under the curse of religion". Of all first world nations, only in the US would the question of "belief" in evolution be posed to a prospective national leader, and only in the US would a sizable minority of the populace want the answer to be no.

 

[mheslep]

I did not say that one group is more "the" than the other. What I did say though, was that while one group is required to denounce their pastors (and even that is not enough), the other gets away with embracing theirs.

Your original post demonstrates the exact opposite is more true: If McCain walks down the same street w/ one of these guys he's ridiculed. He 'gets away' with zip. There's very little of this that I see on the other side w/ the likes of Jackson or Sharpton. Find me a PF post critical of Sen. Obama for campaigning with Jackson; there are numerous such attacks on R. pols on this forum. The recent publicity of Wright is relevant only because Sen. Obama's memoir is loaded with discussion on Wright and has attended that church for 20y. If McCain had such a close personal relationship with some hate monger he would have become a footnote long ago.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

... Obama's campaign clearly suffered in recent days from negative press, mostly centering around his association with the controversial Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Perhaps as a result, Clinton moved into the lead in Gallup's Wednesday release, covering March 16-18 polling. But Obama has now edged back ahead of Clinton due to a strong showing for him in Friday night's polling, perhaps in response to the endorsement he received from well-respected New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a former rival for the nomination. (To view the complete trend since Jan. 2, 2008, click here.)[continued]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105529/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Edges-Ahead-Clinton.aspx