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Jews =palestinians

  1. Oct 3, 2004 #1
    in ancient times where now is palestine and israel,lived semitic people who did not have any specific believes,but then few of them invented talmud,bible while the rest of them stayed the same.so now we have one group of people who call themself chosen ones(jews).centuries pass islam gains popularity and most of the area is under moslem influence.
    my question is this:jews and palestinians are the same people right?

    after ww2 millions of so called jews settled in palestine, but they are actually east european people who took on judausm as a religion.
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 4, 2004 #2
    Technically, we're all the same people. I should say we're all the same "people." All humans are "almost" genetically identical, er, relativly speaking. Of course there are differences, but in truth, those differences are few. It is only our collective minds that create the cultural differences. So, although regionally they may be the same people, culturally they are not (and this further shapes their genotype), which is why they fight.

    Their own subjective perceptions of group identity violently threaten the precious fact of their physical existence.

    Of course, this is also true of all humans who engage in war. It's ashame that we take life for granted.

    it's probably not quite so black and white. Genetically, those European Jews may have been related to ancient Israeli/ Mesopotamian Jews, but culturally, they identified ancient Israel as their homeland.
  4. Oct 29, 2004 #3
    Mmmm... i think i know the answer , did you wanna hear some history?

    From ethnicity perspective, the they were a nation called "Canaanians" which are Arabs "Second- type, they are three types actually". After word [i will not include religion here] A man from Iraq called Abraham [known as well as Ibrahim] come to Canaan land, he is also an arab second type from Iraq, His sons Later from Ishaaq and Jakob went to Egypt. THEN returend back to Canaan Land who they lived in AFTER they came bfrom Iraq. "Sons of Jakocb" is a second-arabic-tribe type known as well as "Sons of Israel" and as well as "Hebrews". Hewbrews in the old arab language "Before it is branched in many other language of which is hebrew and arabic today..and armaaic" means "The Passers" since the pass river Jordan, Passing Egypt, Passin Iraq, and Passin Cannan Land.

    The Word "Palestinians" is actually called for NON-ARABIC tribe who came with iron-steel weapons and defeatthe Cannanies who had copper weapons. They mix with them and become "very-well mixed" into onenation before Sons od Israel tribe come and lived with them in the first time "Before going to Egypt" and the second time after "return-back".
  5. Nov 1, 2004 #4
    ISRAEL, not Palestine, has belonged to the around 40,000 people who escaped from Egypt about 2000 BC. The Palestinians came after that and claimed their land. They managed to live peacefully side by side for a long, long time, untill nationalist ideas were sown in the heads of Palestinians. Before PLO and all other such organizations showed up, there was peace between the two peoples and they shared the land.
  6. Nov 1, 2004 #5
    CHILL OUT FIRST :biggrin:

    I do not caer what the "HOLY LAND" is called, the ISRALEIES in History are AN ARAB TRIBE who THE FATHER OF IT ISRAEL was living in PAlestine first ,then the sons went to Egypt, then went back to the "HOLY LAND"

    SIMPLY ANSWER THIS, and i hope you will not escape:
    So, Isarel the man was living ALONE in the dessert, then after his sons went to Egypt, they were NO SINGLE HUMAN in the HOLY LAND all that long years in Egypt, then they went back and they were the first EVER who lived there?

    Complete no sense at all :approve:
    so...ohhh :uhh: ..uhhh :eek: am i wrong? :biggrin:
    No, i need a reply Thallium, please :surprised
  7. Nov 2, 2004 #6
    The Jews were the first to live on the land that is today called Israel.
  8. Nov 2, 2004 #7
    Show me the proof/argument for your claim...

    Even the Jewish Holy Books stated that hey where fighting with the "Native-People" who were living there and "Took over " thier cities...

    When Isarel, the one single man and his sons "still ONE" family were living there before going to egypt. They were even "Badwin" aka Nomad and even though they by logic were not that numerous to "Claim" controlling all that land..the Holy Land as a whole I mean.

    BTW: abuot the First re-entering of the Israelis to the Holy Land after Moses, i agree about it sine the wars they launch were justified "the were following TRUE GOD TEACHINGS"...any how it is the main topic to discuess now..

    Back to my request: show me your proof/argument for your claim
  9. Nov 2, 2004 #8


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    Moses' answer is correct. The Bible shows that when the Israelites entered their new homeland from the East (crossing the Jordan) it was full of other people who had cities and all and had to be displaced. Read Joshua.
  10. Nov 23, 2004 #9

    Have you forgotten all the history prior to the formation of the PLO? In the late 1800s, back when Israel was known as Palestine, there was peace for the most part between the Palestinian muslems, Palestinian jews, and Palestinian christians. Not until the Zionist movement in the 20th century occured was there heavy violence between the Palestinians and Israelis. Yasser Arafat and his movement did alot of wrong and I do not support their actions, but the Israeli military has commited worse crimes against humanity. the PLO was formed in the 1960s, in the 1940s when the Israelis first took Palestine (they were given the majority of Palestinian land by the UN, how fair to the Palesitnians huh? I wonder why they r so angry[sarcasm]) over 200,000 Palestinian refugees were created. Countelss acts of genocide in part of the Israeli military have occured. Sure the suicide bombings are horrible, but that doesnt mean we have to forget about what the Israeli military has done, and is continuing to do.

    Just because the Israeli military use sophisticated tanks and aircraft (not rocks and home-made bombs) to kill civilians, that doesnt mean they can play victim all the time.

    As far as the question of racial history is concerned, I cannot answerthat question for sure, however I was taught in Highschool that Arabs and Jews historically are both SEMITIC.
  11. Nov 23, 2004 #10
    Half of the world believes this and the other half doesn't. Also, half of the world's maps have "Israel" on the holy land and the other half has "Palestine" (I don't mean "half of the world" literally).

    I don't care who was there first and who wasn't (not a single person living there right now was even born 150 years ago). The important thing is that most of the people who claim the holy land to be their country were born there from parents who were also born there. If you are born in America, aren't you an "American"? If you were born in China, aren't you "Chinese?"

    If a Jew or a Muslim is born in the area of the world east of Egypt and west of Jordan then it's HIS/HER COUNTRY. It doesn't matter what this country is called but they have the right to live there until they die.

    Why is there fighting going on then right now? Because both sides are stupid and want the other race/religion/side out of the country. The violence there creates hatered and a desire for revenge in the hearts of the newborns. The newborns grow to get their revenge and in turn, create more hatered and desire for revenge in the newborn. It's a cycle that does not and will not end unless both sides start thinking about what's happening and how to stop it.

    This conflict WILL NOT be solved by any other country telling the Jews to get x part of the land and the Muslims to get y part. It will not be solved by telling both sides to stop the fighting. The only way (from my point of view) that it can be solved is to integrate both governments into one combined government and teach the students in schools about what's going on (why their parents where killed, why they shouldn't seek revenge, how if they seek revenge and kill/hurt someone they will be punished by the government, and how the age of war is over).

    What I very briefly outlined is extremely hard, if not impossible, to do. However, I see it as the only way out of the violence.

    Everyone there right now probably has a place to live. They should just live there and not try to take over anyone else's place of living. This conflict will be solved only when the Jews and Muslims live peacefuly together. Neither the Jews nor the Muslims are leaving this area of the world, because like I said before, they were born there. It's their country.
  12. Nov 24, 2004 #11

    what you say about being born in a country and it being yours is true. This is not a problem between muslims and jews. It is a problem between an oppressive government and the group of people that is being oppressed. Before the Zionist movement occured in current-day Israel there was peace between Palestinian Muslims, Palestinian Jews, and Palestinian Christians. By the way to this day there are alot of Palestinian Christians, there were never that many Palestinian Jews although they were accepted. Now, Palestinians want to be left alone. they want a place they can call home, and they are being denied that right. To this day the israeli military continues to expand its territories and create new Jewish settlements on recently-demolished Palestinian land. Israel has broken many agreements and contracts and has gotten away with it because of the US's support. I am an American and I love the USA but I am not going to ignore what is going on.

    The way suicide bombers andsuch handle the situation is wrong, and it only fuels hate. For the most part Israel is the aggressor (3 times as many Palestinian civilians die as Israeli civilians do). The killing of any civlian is WRONG.

    do you want to be enlightened? check out http://ifamericansknew.org/

    Both sides should have a place they call home. I feel sorry for the treatment of Jews in the past, but that doesnt mean a minority group of Jews can create a group called the Zionists and do the same to a seperate group of people who were until the 20th century peacefull, civilized human beings.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2004
  13. Nov 24, 2004 #12
    That's not what the other "half of the world" thinks.

    I was fortunate enough to go to school in the middle east for a part of my life. There I learned that there are TWO governments in the holy land. I agree that Israel is oppressing Palestinians but Palestinians are fighting back also and killing Israelis. That's what I learned in history classes over there: Palestinians have always been living there and Israel wants to "colonize" the holy land. The government of Palestine is fighting this but Israel is getting help from the US which makes it a lot harder. Colonization is a pretty common word in the middle east because many of the middle east countries were colonized before. Egypt by England and France, Algeria by the French...etc. I learned that "all the middle eastern countries are now free except for Palestine who is still colonized by Israel."

    See the difference in points of view?

    Over there on the news almost every single day you'd see new pictures or videos of the "colonizing country's army" (Israel) killing Palestinians. In the US, every once in a while you'd hear in the news about a suicide bomber killing some Israelis. Again, see the difference in points of view? You never see in the US Israelis killing Palestinians and you never see in the middle east Palestinians killing Israelis on TV.

    The US would do a huge mistake if it stopped giving aid to Israel. Mainly because this is what stopping other middle eastern countries from helping Palestine (I think). If what I'm thinking is true then the situation will turn around in a month or two and you'd find Israelis being oppressed by Palestinians (with the aid of other middle eastern countries). What the US can do is make an integrated government with members of the existing two governments in it. If this government favors one side even very slightly then it won't work. It has to be a fair government and represent Israelis as well as Palestinians equally. The aid can then be given to this government, instead of "Israel" getting the aid, the new combined government can get it and distribute it evenly to help Palestinians build new homes instead of Israel buying guns. After that, Israelies and Palestinians should just live together peacefuly like people from all races live peacefuly in the US.

    One very important step however is to teach the Palestinians and the middle east that Israel is not a colonizing country and that they have no where else to go in the world. If Palestine wants Israel out of their country then they should give them a home somewhere else in the world first.

    But, eh, who am I to talk about the ultimate plan to solve the Israel-Palestine conflict? :confused: I'm just an 18 years old freshman in college :tongue2:
  14. Nov 24, 2004 #13
    I grew up in Kuwait, and yes they are really biased about the entire issue. ALmost every case when Palestinians kill Israelis is through suicide bombing, which is reported throughoutthe middle east. Yes they DO hear about it. But in reality, the Arab countries 9especially the gulf countries) don't give a **** about Palestine. Additionally Egypt is at alliance with Israel. Most of the world (excluding the US) consideres Israel to be an oppessive, colonialist force. Before ther ewas Israel, Palestine was a protectorate of Palestine. So just like Syria and Lebanon was covered by the French, and Egypt was covered by the British, Palestine was too a victim of colonialism thanks to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. However the way the English colonized Palestine is very different from how Israel does. the Israelis view this as their homeland. The British would never do such a thing. They always look up to their motherland and even sacrificed their colonies in America to save their motherland.

    The Zionists ave an idea that it is their God-given right to occupy the land once know nas Palestine by any means necesarry. It is irelevent which group of people was in Palestine first in biblical times. the fact is that there was a large group of people who had been living peacefully on a peace of land and another group of people came in and expelled them from most of it.

    et the Israelis play the victim EVERYTIME someone retliates. "Why do they ahte us?" It just might be because you have savaged this group of people for over half a century.

    Jewish immigration to Palestine at the end of the 19th century was welcomed (for the most part) until there were attempts by certain Jews to take over, which they succeeded.

    Many many US resolutions have been written up to help the Palestinians in giving them SOME carving of the land they once owned and allowing them to create a state where they can call HOME. Each time they were either vetoed by the US, or werent put into action. This is unfair.

    I have spoken personally to Israelis who have been in he military in he past and they all have admitted to me that they would prefer to just kill every Palestinian, men, women, children- all of them. I know not every Israeli beleives this, but when members of the military do, there are going to be problems.

    I am American/Palestinian, and when my American side visits my Palestinian side they constantly talk about the great hospitality and generousity of my Palestinian relatives. But oh wait, this can't be possible, CNN says its not!

    Suicide bombings are horrible, but it is commited by a minority. but that's not what American media wants us to think. Palestinians are constantly potrayed as the terrorists, the enemies of peace, the aggressors. the Israelis are constantly otrayed as the victims. So much for inbiased reporting.
  15. Nov 24, 2004 #14
    Alright I agree with you about many of the things you said. The above quote is not one of them. Egypt was in a war with Israel and just because they're not fighting anymore doesn't mean they're "at alliance".
  16. Nov 25, 2004 #15
    I cannot confirm if they are at alliance at the moment, but I kno they are atleast neutral towards eahc other as far as government relations go. They communicate and hold meetings with one another and everything.

    Especially in the middle east, there is a big differnce between social relations and government relations.
  17. Nov 25, 2004 #16
    Well, in the middle east, there is 2 countries in war situation with Isreal

    Two countries have a "natural" relation in term they are not in war situationn, still lots of tension sometimes happened betwenn them and Hebrew state, these two are: [there is diplomacy relations occuring, e.g embassies and goverment visits...etc]


    Othe middle eastern countries, besides turkey have no diplomacy relations with Israel. And consider it as enemy, even there is no war wage between them [is might sound pretty much like U.S and North Korea now...]
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