Justice for Victims of Agent Orange

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In summary, a petition is being circulated to gather at least 300,000 signatures before December 2004 to be sent to the American government in support of the Civil Action brought by the Vietnam Association of Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin and three Vietnamese victims. This is the first such action brought by Vietnamese victims in any court of law and aims to hold the U.S. President, Government, and Chemical Companies responsible for the damage caused by their actions and products. The petition is seen as a way for peace-lovers to show their support and bring attention to the ongoing suffering caused by Agent Orange, which has killed, is still killing, and causing great suffering to over three million people in Vietnam. The purpose of the petition is to gather
  • #106
Human Right In Vietnam

Of Human Rights in Vietnam



This topic is not chosen at random in the wake of a related action taken early September by the US House of Representatives, an action in no way acceptable to the Government and people of Vietnam.

Human Rights are a cultural value of humankind, with enormous importance. As the Vietnamese often say, to lose one?s culture is to lose everything. Culture of such as the Vietnamese nation is cultivated with four thousand years of history, through fierce struggles with foreign invasion, natural calamity and within itself. Therefore, in the thought of the Vietnamese people Human Rights are the cultural strength, the requirement of every individual for the value of the right to live in an independent country, the right to development, the freedom to religion and belief. Strange to the Vietnamese is the idea of opposing individuals to the community and separating rights from obligations. Codified in the Constitution of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, Human Rights are practiced in all political, economic, cultural and social life and are better and better guaranteed with the advancement of the country enriched by absorbing cultural quintessence of other nations in its intercourse with the world community. By the way, one can contemplate the fact that human rights standards provided in the 10 Amendments to the US Constitution only include civil and political rights while largely excluding economic, social and cultural rights. How these rights are provided depends on the characteristics and the right of the American State and people. For developing countries including Vietnam, however, the most imperative right is also the rights to life, economic and social development. Differences in history and culture necessarily result in differences in human rights perception and practicing. Different countries cannot be forced to have the same perception and a similar human rights model. Furthermore, the practicing of human rights is mere internal affairs of each country.

Those Americans having visited Vietnam saw with their own eyes that every Vietnamese enjoys a life made better and better with every passing day, particularly after the last 15 years of renovation, also known as Doi Moi. As the country had undergone decades of war and is developing from a backward agriculture-based economy, difficulties remain in every Vietnamese? material life. However, each Vietnamese feels comfortable with and proud of being a citizen of an independent Vietnam, having a safe life and the full right to stand for election, nominate and vote to administration at all levels, the right to have shelter, to employment, to free enterprise to amass riches for himself/herself and his/her family, etc.

Ho Chi Minh, the Vietnamese leader, a man of culture of the world as conferred upon by UNESCO, made a simple but fully humanistic statement about the right to be human being of the Vietnamese people: After gaining independence ?comes the task of how to assist every fellow country man and woman to be fed, clothed and educated?. The drinking and eating culture of the Vietnamese is connected closely with cultivating rice, eating rice or noodle soup, not pizza or hot-dog. With regard to learning, the Vietnamese now also use the Internet ? a wonderful product of mankind?s civilization. But they do not want to have contents in their ?learning and practicing? to be contrary to their fine traditional custom or detrimental to the Oriental ethics and living style, thus causing damage to the families ? the cells of the society.

In order to build a better life, the Vietnamese also understand they must rely basically on themselves. All foreign cooperation and assistance are valued and appreciated. But it would be an offense if someone tried to arbitrarily impose conditions for assistance level to Vietnam on ?progress? on the lifestyle and human rights of the Vietnamese. The right Human Rights, as now consented by the majority, must be for ?development for all.? Linking unreasonable human rights conditions to expansion of mutually beneficiary cooperation is a big mistake. That is even worse in the Vietnam-US relations. Given severe long-term consequences left by the war to our two nations, whenever can such way of thinking help conciliation and heal the war wounds.(1)

Some are concerned about religious freedom in Vietnam. Currently, about 20 million, or up to one-third of the population, follow one religion or another; the majority of the other two-thirds practice ancestral worship. The precious tradition preserved by the different Vietnamese ethnic people in history was to allow no religious discrimination or conflict, to maintain the coexistence among religious and non-religious people and among different religions as a natural reality and aspiration. If the State of Vietnam today suppressed religions, how could there exist up to 500 Protestant Churches. How could the Protestant Church of Vietnam just come to being? How could 6 seminaries be established from 1987 to 1994? How can Vietnam possibly be home to the second largest number of bishops in Asia (second only to the Philippines)? There are now three Buddhist Universities compared to just one before 1975. How could the Hoa Hao sect, the country?s fifth largest religion, celebrate its 60 anniversary in 1999? So on and so forth. As for abiding by the laws, is there a state on Earth under which citizens, religious and non-religious, can live and act beyond its laws, beyond his/her nation?s fine custom and cultural traditions? A few law violators cannot be defended by criticizing a right policy and a vast positive reality. All citizens need to have the right to be treated equal before the Constitution and laws. What important in Vietnam is that no individual is arrested or jailed for religious faith.

What about freedom of expression? The Vietnamese are entitled to the right to democracy and freedom written in the Constitution, including the freedom of speech and expression, freedom of press, freedom of information, freedom of assembly, association and demonstration as regulated by the laws. Every effort made by the State is to enhance these rights. That is why democracy from the grassroots now prevails in the life in Vietnam. This form of democracy is rooted from age-old community-based life in Vietnamese, now the strength for the Vietnamese nation to live forever. It is being practiced through hundreds of daily newspapers, magazines and television networks; through their representative members to the National Assembly they themselves elected by direct vote. Ordinary people now have sufficient conditions to express their views over all political, economical and social issues of their country; criticize negative phenomena within the administration and corruption committed by bureaucratic officials; and have a voice in the decision and policy making process at all levels. Therefore, actions to abuse the right to freedom and democracy to contravene state interests and damage the legitimate rights and interests of organizations and citizens, like in other countries, must be subject to criminal judgment.

Ushering in a new century, all Vietnamese share a common wish for peace and stability so that they can focus on producing and building the country into a more and more prosperous one, and building a just, democratic and civilized society. Vietnam has stated its willingness to be a friend and reliable partner of all countries. Even though the Vietnamese are still poor compared to people in other countries, they have a fine cultural tradition of protecting and helping one another and are making every effort to carry out ?hunger eradication and poverty alleviation?. This policy and Vietnam?s cooperation with the United Nations (UN) in hunger eradication and poverty alleviation efforts have been praised by the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) as exemplary for cooperation between the UN and the developing countries. The State has promulgated numerous preferential policies in education, health care, household production loan, giving priority to construction of social infrastructure projects in order to improve the life of ethnic minority groups. It is also doing its utmost to assist the poor, especially those in the mountainous Central and Northwestern Highlands. While many countries are still hesitant to do so, Vietnam has acceded to most of the major international conventions related to human rights, including all the conventions on protecting women and children, social elements that suffer ill-treatment and persecution the most. With enhanced prestige and sustained effort in regard to human rights, the election of Vietnam to the UN Human Rights Commission in 2000 is well deserved.

A senior US official in exclusive charge of Human Rights said, ?No country is perfect? with regard to Human Rights. But the Vietnamese people are quite proud of the achievements recorded in ever protecting and improving their rights. This reflects enormous efforts made to date by the State of Vietnam, a State with good nature from birth being of the people, by the people and for the people, given continued economic difficulties being solved domestically and the requirements from the world civilized life.

Mutual respect and understanding instead of imposition are the guidelines to address the human rights issue, which is so sensitive and important.



Embassy of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in USA
 
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  • #107
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(1)During the US war in Vietnam, known as the Vietnam War, nearly 3 million Vietnamese were killed, with about 300,000 still unaccounted for to date; more than 4 million injured. According to the US Department of Defense figures, from 1961 to 1971, up to 72 million litters of defoliants, consisting of 45 millions of Agent Orange, were sprayed over Vietnam, causing loss of 43 million cubic meters of merchandise wood. 26 years after the war ended, more than 2 million Vietnamese remain dioxin-affected.
 
  • #108
Veterant's Letter

A veteran's letter to Congressman Christopher Smith
14 July 2004
In re: H. RES. 427; H. RES. 613; (S. RES. 343)
Dear Representative Christopher Smith,


I apologize for sending this to your office because I am not a member of your district. However, my purpose is to comment on two matters which reflect your membership on the Veteran’s Affairs Committee and the International Affairs Committee. The decisions made by these committees are far reaching and have great influence outside your district’s boundaries.


I am a combat veteran having served in Viet Nam 1968-1969. Thus, as a beneficiary of your work on behalf of veterans, I offer you my sincere gratitude. I hope your strong advocacy on behalf of veterans will continue.


My second point deals with your work in the international field. Specifically I wish to comment on your proposed resolutions chastising the Vietnamese government for human rights’ abuses.


I returned to Viet Nam for the first time in 1997 and have been returning every year since for a few months each year. While there, I try to enter the Viet culture as best I can. My friends are, for the great part, normal, everyday Vietnamese citizens. I usually base myself in Sai Gon/Ho Chi Minh City by renting an apartment and then I travel extensively within the country.


Initially I was agog at the different culture, language, food, etc. However, as the years have passed, I now find myself considering the Vietnamese a part of my family. And, I think, the feeling has been reciprocated by the Viet people. I was amazed at first but now I take the friendship and hospitality as a given.


I am a ‘tough’ old soldier and not given to shows of emotion but there are times when a tear almost comes to my eye when I think of the great damage that was done to Viet Nam during the war years.


The figures are staggering. Estimates of 3 million killed from a population of 30 million (1970). And an estimated 300,000 still MIA and unaccounted for.


I served honorably as a soldier but very early on during my tour I promised myself that I would do as little damage as possible to the Vietnamese people and their land. I felt I kept that promise as best I could given the circumstances I found myself in.


I am sorry for the lengthy ‘biography’ but I include for it is necessary to understand the next point I wish to make.


I have been greatly troubled, and bewildered, by annual attempts to ‘punish’ Viet Nam for what is termed ‘abuses of human rights’. Usually, religious freedom is an integral part of these accusations.


I have no special knowledge or information other than my experience and that which I have seen with my own eyes. And, after seven years of unhindered travel within Viet Nam, I can say that I have seen absolutely no government hindrance of any religious belief.


And Viet Nam, as our own country, has a plethora of beliefs.


In Sai Gon, I travel daily on a main thoroughfare and I am amazed at the number and variety of religious establishments that I see.


Nguyen Van Troi is the street I live on and travel so regularly. Within the space of about one mile (!) I have noticed and have seen frequented by worshippers a Baptist Church, numerous Pagodas, a huge Catholic Cathedral and even a small Mosque. All have members in numbers and all seem to be frequented by whomever so chooses.


In my many conversations with Viets in the cities, villages and hamlets throughout the country, I have never once heard the question of religion brought up unless it is I inquiring about different aspects of those religions. The practice of religious beliefs seems to be a strictly personal choice.


Viet Nam, both within the government as well as within the populace, seems to abide by a strict separation of state and religion. I cannot describe it in any other manner. From my vantage, admittedly of a somewhat limited nature, my observation is that Viets can practice religion wherever, whenever or however they choose.


I have studied the constitution and laws of Viet Nam and the basic human rights that we, as Americans, hold so dear are codified within these laws and were individually enunciated beginning with Ho Chi Minh’s Declaration of Independence on 2 September 1945.


I realize that we have received reports of disturbances in the Central Highlands where the ethnic tribes ( I believe 54 in number) exist. I have traveled to many of these areas including Dac Lac, Gia Lai, Kon Tum and Binh Phuoc Provinces. In the last mentioned there is a sizable ethnic population of S’Tieng people.


In 2001, I financed and helped to construct a cultural house/library/community center in the district of Bu Dang where the S’Tieng comprises roughly 25% to 33% of the population.


In these areas I have had unfettered access to contact with these peoples and I have never, not once, heard any indication or mention of a problem with religious belief. Most of the ethnic peoples practice a form of animism.


As I mentioned I have no special knowledge or intelligence but I can make an educated guess concerning the very sporadic and limited in scope problems in the Highlands of Viet Nam.


I strongly believe the Vietnamese government is defending the tenets of their Constitution and, in truth, their’homeland’ if there is an attempt to foment disturbances of civil order within their territory.


There is a group based in the US that is known by the acronym of FULRO ( see Montagnard Foundation & Transnational Radical Party) and it seems to be calling for some sort of separation of the ethnic peoples from the body politic of Viet Nam. A leader of this group, a Ksor Kok, is actually calling for a state within the boundaries of the sovereign nation of Viet Nam! He is espousing such to be called the ‘Degar State’.


If my feelings are correct then I think you would agree that, if such were to happen within our own borders, we would defend the sanctity of our ‘homeland’ and our Constitution. I feel strongly that the ‘abuse of human rights’ issue is truly not the issue.


The issue is one of national sovereignty and adherence to the written law of the Vietnamese people.


I beseech you, Sir, to rethink the ramifications of these periodic proposals aimed at Viet Nam’s conduct of its internal affairs. I feel certain that this is not your intention but these accusations greatly wound the Vietnamese people and they greatly wound me.


It is ironic in some ways that after such a horrible introduction to Viet Nam as a soldier wielding a weapon, I now consider the Vietnamese a part of my family and I know I will never consciously do anything to harm their independence.


The wars cost Viet Nam greatly in personal suffering and loss and in the physical toll it took on their land. However, I think the greater damage was done to our own nation in a psychological sense.


The Vietnamese people are extremely proud of their nation and their culture. Just as we are of ours! I believe they yearn for a ‘true’ friendship with the US. A friendship based on mutual respect. And I yearn for the day my government will offer that ‘true’ hand of friendship to the Vietnamese people. I feel I could guarantee that we would have a strong, friendly and, equal, ally.


And I am certain if such were to take place, it would go a long way towards erasing that national ‘PTSD’ that we all still suffer from.


Again, I feel I must apologize for this letter and its length but it is a matter that weighs upon me a great deal.





William J. Kelly Jr.

PO Box 307; Stockholm, NJ 07460; 973-209-2612; E: bilikelly@hotmail.com

PS: I have included some photos and clippings that might be of interest. If you or any member of your staff would care to discuss anything that I have mentioned, I would be honored to meet with whomever, whenever, wherever
 
  • #109
An American Veteran's Letter to Senator Brownback




SENATOR BROWNBACK:

Having lived and worked in Vietnam for nine years as representative of two American veterans organizations -- first the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, and now the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund, both supporting humanitarian relief projects here (although I am now commenting as an American citizen and a U.S. veteran, not on behalf of either organization) -- I can say that I have never witnessed any effort on the part of the government or any institution to suppress the constitutional right of the Vietnamese people to practice the religion of their choice. And the right to not practice religion is also enshrined in their constitution, to protect those who might otherwise feel pressured by society or institutions to take part in organized religion.

I have read many of the reports coming out of the U.S. alleging cases where the Vietnamese government has interfered with or suppressed the actions of certain individuals who said they were acting on behalf of the church or some other religious group. The number of such cases is quite small, given Vietnam's population of 80 million (probably no more than two dozen that I have seen reported), and the actions of some of those charged or tried and, in some cases, sentenced, are questionable when reviewed objectively in the context of Vietnam's troubled history of war and major destruction, and in the context of the Vietnamese people's clear determination to maintain a long period of peace and stability based on mutual respect and the social and cultural traditions of harmony and disapproval of activities of individuals which do not benefit the larger community and the national interest. That is clear from hundreds of discussions and conversations I have had with Vietnamese citizens, who are often quite critical of the government or the party or other authority. But when asked what alternative they seek, inevitably they reply that they're not looking for major change, they simply want to see continued progress, opportunity, and stability, and they say, "We just need to do better" but the country should continue in the same direction.

You are familiar with the Pew Foundation global survey conducted last year under the chairmanship of Madelaine Albright, which found that of all countries in the world, Vietnam ranked number one in the level of satisfaction among the population with the direction in which the country is headed.

As I told you at the American Chamber of Commerce luncheon in Hanoi, I have a staff member who is Catholic and whose family has been Catholic since his grandmother converted under the French in 1919. When I asked him if his family had ever felt any scrutiny or pressure from the government regarding their active participation in the church, he was surprised and said flatly that such a thing had never happened, and he was unaware of anyone else who had experienced such. I have been told the same thing by many others -- Buddhists, Cao Dai, Cham -- and I do not know of any foreign NGOs working in Vietnam, many religious based, who have experienced or witnessed any harrassment from the Vietnamese government as long as they were engaged in humanitarian activities and not proselytizing on behalf of their faith.

One only needs to drive around the country, north, south, central, to see huge numbers of churches and pagodas, big and small, under renovation or construction or built within the last 10 years or so, open to millions of Vietnamese actively practicing the religion of their choice.

Most of the stories which are reported in the U.S. of various questionable incidents in Vietnam alleging interference with religion, which receive wide attention in America, I cannot verify or deny. (Some I do know are untrue or exaggerated and manipulated, however.) But I have learned that much information about Vietnam coming from the U.S. is deliberately inflammatory and often inaccurate.

Vietnam is not perfect, and the government certainly makes mistakes. Sometimes even with enlightened and progressive policies in place at the national level, it is possible or even likely that at the local officials do not always adhere to the letter and the spirit of the law. (I'm from Georgia, and I remember well in years past local sheriffs scoffing at some law or court ruling and insisting, "I don't care what the governor in Atlanta says -- this is my territory!" It is quite possible that some local officials or law enforcement officers in Vietnam are not always in total compliance with law, regulations, or accepted social custom either.)

However, in general almost all Americans and other foreigners living here would give Vietnam very high marks for remarkable progress in religious freedoms, human rights, and democratic participation of citizens in decisions at every level, especially in the last decade or so of impressive economic growth and political stability. The situation will continue to improve as long as we foreigners maintain a constructive and open dialogue with the Vietnamese, rightly applauding their dramatic steps toward reform and openness, and pointing out areas in which they can still improve -- but in a way that is not judgemental or threatening. The Vietnamese are among the most polite and considerate people in the world, but they are also proud and they resent arrogance and intrusiveness on the part of outsiders. That is not surprising, considering the major traumas they lived through under centuries of outside domination and war.

I'm sure on your recent visit here the Vietnamese made it clear that you and other members of Congress, and ordinary American citizens, are always welcome here and they will help any visit to be enjoyable and instructive. But you can't accomplish that in a few days. And neither can authors of reports critical of the Vietnamese who rely only on information they obtain outside of the country.

I'm sure every American citizen living and working in Vietnam would also be happy to help in any way that would be useful, particularly in introducing you and others to the people of Vietnam -- which may be a slightly different prism that what can be viewed only through meetings with government officials.

The improving relationship between the U.S. and Vietnam should continue and grow and, based on mutual trust and respect, we can accomplish much toward improving virtually every aspect of people's lives in Vietnam, including religious freedoms and human rights, even if defined only through the standards which we in the U.S. expect and sometimes attempt to impose on others.

If there is any way I can be of help in learning more, providing more information, and building better understanding between our two countries, I stand ready to do so.



CHARLES M. (CHUCK) SEARCY
U.S. Army 1966-1969
519th Military Intelligence Battalion, Saigon, June 1967-1968

CHUCK SEARCY, Vietnam Representative
Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund (VVMF) / Vietnam Enterprise Group (VEG)
25 Truong Han Sieu / Hanoi, Vietnam
844 943 8061 tel / 844 943 8062 fax / 849 03 420 769 mobile chucksearcy@yahoo.com

I hope that this gives some helpful information for you.
See things more impartially !
 
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  • #110
Human Rights 02/18/2004
War Veteran: Vietnam Is Moving In The Right Direction


Statement of Jaime Vazquez, Director of Veterans Affairs, Jersey City, N.J. To The Senate Sub-Committe on East Asia and Pacific Affairs

Washington, DC
Thursday, February 12, 2004

Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committe, Ladies and Gentlemen,

First, allow me to thank you for the opportunity of addressing you today on the very important issue of the relationships between the United States and the country of Vietnam.

My name is Jaime Vazquez. I am Director of Veterans Affairs for the City of Jersey City, New Jersey. My primary responsibilty is to assist veterans of all service periods to apply for and receive entitled benefits from the Veterans Administration and other agencies responsible for extending these benefits.

I am a combat wounded veteran of the Vietnam War. I served in Vietnam from October 17, 1967 until November 30, 1968 where I was a member of Delta Company, 1st Battalion, 1st Marines. During my tour in Vietnam, I was seriously wounded on April 21, 1968 on Hill 881 just west of the firebase at Khe Sanh. Upon returning from Vietnam and being discharged from the military, I was designated as service connected disabled by the Veterans Admininstration.

Throughout the years, I had thought about returning to Vietnam, but I never took the opportunity. During 2002, I had the opportunity of meeting representatives of the Veterans Association of Vietnam at the United Nations in New York. The meeting with the representatives of V.A.V.N. was warm, cordial and enlightening. We had open and free discussions about the war and our participation in it. There was a liberating affect to this dialogue, almost like a weight had been taken off my shoulders. There was the commonality that we were veterans of the same war. We had suffered the same slings and arrows of that war and that now we were middle-aged men and women who had to learn from the past experience of war to be able to make the future better.

The subsequent meeting with representatives of the V.A.V.N. resulted in an invitation to return to visit Vietnam and to witness the changes and the development that Vietnam had undergone during the past thirty-five years.

Like most Vietnam Veterans I had concerns, thoughts and feelings about my return. How would I be received? How would I be treated? What would be the attitude of the Vietnamese people to returning American Veterans? During the war, America lost almost 60,000 of her sons, but Vietnam lost more than two million. Would there be resentment, anger and hate? Only my return would answer these questions.

My flight arrived in Hanoi on August 14, 2003. As I awaited, my luggage and the packages of 250 lbs. of medical supplies that I had brought for the children's hospital at Friendship Village, I was approached by one of the customs officials that was nearby. We engaged in conversation. When I informed him that I was an American Veteran of the war who was returning to Vietnam for the first time since the war, he showed genuine interest and treated me with the highest sense of courtesy and respect.

The following day, I met with representatives of the V.A.V.N. at their headquarters in Hanoi. Lt. Gen. Thuy is the current President of the V.A.V.N. This organization represents more than 1.7 million Vietnamese Veterans of the war with the United States. The meeting was warm, cordial and informative.

There are many parallels between the experience suffered by both sides during the war. Veterans from both sides suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. All people are affected by war. Veterans and their off-spring suffer from the affects of Agent Orange.

As General Thuy mentioned, we are veterans of the same war who are now in our middle and late years. We must learn from our common experience of war in order to prevent this in the future and to help the current generation to live and to prosper in peace.

There are many new things that I learned from the Vietnamese people during my return. Vietnam has a population of 80 million, fifty-five percent of which were born after the war. There seems to be a disconnect with regards to the war among the Vietnamese population as compared to the American population. Part of the problem has to do with the American perception of Vietnam. The only time we see the word Vietnam it is always accompanied by the word war. Vietnam is not a war. Vietnam is a country. A society. A people. A culture.

In regards to the question of religious freedom, I can only present my observations. On Sunday, August 17, 2003 at the Roman Catholic Cathedral of St. Joseph's located in the center of Hanoi, I arrived about an hour before the mass. By the time the mass began, the Cathedral was filled to capacity with scores of parishoners spilling out onto the side street. This mass was attended by more than 1,000 people. In the cities of Hanoi, Danang and Ho-Chi- Minh City, I was able to visit a number of Catholic, Buddhist and Muslim churches, temples and religious sites. On television the Buddhist even have a commercial that urges followers to come and pray at their temple. On Sunday, August 24, 2003, I was able to attend mass at the cathedral of Notre Dame located in the center of Ho-Chi-Minh City. Here was a repeat of the previous Sundays experience. The Cathedral was filled to over capacity and the masses were conducted without any interference or hindrance. It is my understanding, that during the past year or so, more than 100 churches have been repaired or rehabilitated and returned for the use of the church.

In addition, I understand that there are more than 11, 000 Catholic Priests, 33,000 Buddhist Monks, more than 10,000 Buddhist Nuns, thousands of Muslims and thousands of functionaries representing different religious denominations who practice religious freedom within the country of Vietnam.

In regards to economic development and freedom before Vietnam liberalized its laws on private corporate ownership there were about 15,000 family owned businesses in Vietnam. Today, as a result of new rules and regulations there are over 80,000 privately owned businesses. I visited many of the markets and business areas in Hanoi, Danang and Ho-Chi-Minh City. What I witnessed can be called nothing else than a thriving market economy. I saw hundreds of businesses selling and buying. I saw business competition as one may witness on the streets of New York. I also noticed within this thriving economy an abundace of flower shops, which to me was an indication of the growing economic and social affluence of the Vietnamese. Flower shops are a luxury and their abundance within the society are an indication of the development of that society.

Vietnam is moving in the right direction with regards to its religious and economic freedoms. Maybe not as fast as some would like to see, but moving in the right direction nonetheless. After the end of the war with Vietnam the United States did nothing to help Vietnam recover from the devastating damage caused to the basic infrastructure of that country by the war. The United States needs to do much more to assist Vietnam in continuing the positive changes that they have instituted in recent years. This year more than one hundred thousand Vietnamese exiles or "viet-kieu" returned to Vietnam during the "Tet" New Years Holidays. This is a clear indication that the Vietnmese government has changed its policies in conformity with what might be internationally acceptable conduct.

Political change will come to Vietnam as they become more involved within the world economic and political community. Political change will come as it has to many other countries including America with the social and economic development of the people. The more economically free that Vietnamese people become the more political change will come.

During the Vietnam War we dropped more bombs in Vietnam then we did during all of World War II. If we want the Vietnamese to change, they must be treated with respect and equality. If we learn anything from the Vietnam War is that we cannot bomb people into submission and we cannot economically or politically subjugate them into acting the way we would prefer.

We must work with the Vietnamese as partners if we are to accerlate positive change in this grand and proud country. From my experience, the current legislation being considered by the Congress would have a negative impact on the relationships between our country and change which have been instituted by the Vietnamese.

Finally, let me say that my experience in Vietnam as a returning veteran was an epiphany from the day I arrived until my departure. I was treated with the highest sense of courtesy, respect and kindness by all of the people that I met. From the highest government executives to the taxi drivers and vendors in the markets. A common desire to have good relationships with the United States was expressed. I expect to return to Vietnam and I would urge other Vietnam Veterans and U.S. cictizens to go to Vietnam and witness for themselvesf the realty that Vietnam is today. Vietnam is moving in the right direction. We should work and cooperate with them in order for them to achieve a better quality of life for the Vietnamese people.

For further information contact Jaime Vazquez at (201) 832-1395 or (201) 659-7664
E-mail: marinevet52@aol.com or jaime@jcnj.org

I hope that you all should think much about this.
Please don't weaken our two country friendship which is being consolidated by many of us.
It is not the time to open another COLD WAR !
 
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  • #111
Source :the embassy of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam in USA

Human Rights 02/11/2004
Facts about religions in Vietnam


According to incomplete statistics, up to 19 million Vietnamese practice one religion or another, making up of about a quarter of the 80 million population. Among them, there are nearly 57 thousand in the clergy and over 10 thousand students. There are over 10 thousand religious groupings that are in control of nearly 23 thousand worshipping places throughout the country. Besides, there are over two thousand entities conducting charity operations.

1. Buddhism:

As of 2003, 9,038,064 or about 12% of the population follow Buddhism, including about 1.2 million from the Khmer ethnic group.

There are about 33 thousand in the Buddhist clergy (including over 21 thousands from the Northern denomination, over 9 thousand in the Southern and Khmer denomination, with over 9 thousand dignitaries.

There are about 14,600 worshipping places for Buddhism throughout the country.

With regard to Buddhist training, there are 3 Buddhist Institutes with over one thousand students currently enrolled; 4 Buddhist college classes with 842 students; 30 intermediate level schools with over 3,000 students; 37 primary level classes with 2,500 students. In all these, there are up to 2,500 Khmer students. Among them, there are about 2,500 Khmers are currently enrolled in advanced, intermediate and primary Buddhist Pali classes.

There are 1,076 Buddhist charities in the country and 820 groupings of Buddhist households.

2. Catholicism:

There are 5,303,445 Catholics in the country, making up of 7.2% of the population.

- Catholic clergy: there are 2 Cardinals (Jean-Baptist Pham Minh Man of Ho Chi Minh City was ordained Cardinal by Vatican last year), 1 Archbishops, 36 Bishops, 2,410 priests, 11,147 parish priests; 4,390 students in grand seminaries and seminaries.

- There are 6,033 worshipping places for Catholics in the country’s 3 Archdioceses, 25 dioceses, and over 2 thousand parishes.

- There are 6 grand seminaries with 1,044 currently enrolled students and over one thousand charitable entities.

- There are 9,531 Catholic groupings in the country.

3. Protestantism:

There are about 622,000 thousand Protestants in Vietnam, compared to 200,000 in pre-1975 period. Among them, there are 872 pastors and missionary workers, compared to 371 in pre-1975 period.

There are 445 churches or praying houses, compared to 380 in pre-1975 period.

In the Central Highland alone, there are about 350,000 Protestants that practice 8 different Protestant factions. There are 79 pastors and part-time pastors, 96 Protestant missionary workers and 380 volunteer missionary.

24 branches of the Evangelical Church of Vietnam have been officially recognized, including 8 branches recognized during the 2003 Christmas season.

4. Cao Dai:

Nearly 2.3 million follow this indigenous religion which has nearly 1300 Grand Temples and temples and over 7,100 in the clergy.

5. Hoa Hao Buddhism:

Nearly 1.25 million follow this religion (or about 1.5% of the population) which has 522 large and small establishments under the management of 535 clergymen and clergywomen.

6. Islam:

This religion has about 65 thousands followers, with 699 in the clergy and 77 worshipping places across the country.
 
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  • #112
I know why you have never heard of the Unified Buddhist Church, hiphys. They're in jail.

And you still haven't answered my question about the Vietnamese' ability to express criticism of the government. Why not? Can you write an editorial in the local newspaper criticizing the government, hiphys?

I love it... state-sponsored Buddhist organization.
 
  • #113
Do you really want to know what the Vietnameses are thinking now ?
Do you really want to know what I am thinking now ?
Do you really want to know what the Vietnameses are yearning for now ?
Do you want to know why I have spent most of my freetime searching for documents to speak out here ?

Do you think that you are really not obsessed by the US ‘s failure in Vietnam
Do you think that you are really trying to bring good things to Vietnam ?
Do you think that you are really trying to strengthen our two country relationship ?

Answer them sincerely,please.
And you’ll see that why you always try to search for bad news (but not exactly) about Vietnam.

“ There was a man who has a wonderful race horse.That horse has won all the race held in the world.But, the horse still hasn’t its own name.The man held a competition to name the horse. And the winning name is “BAD NEWS”.”

I suppose that many of you have heard about this story. But what have we learned from this simple story ?

We really welcome you all to Vietnam.Coming here, to understand Vietnam and its people.
I were born after the Vietnam war,but now I still see its terrible damage in our homeland.
Many people lost their family’s members in the war.
Many people still carry their wounds from the war
But we have never been taught to feel vindictive hatred for American.
I suppose that No American has been attacked in Vietnam since 1975 in our country.
Is it true?.And you may know why.

After reunification, we all want to build up our country.That is our great dream !
But some people who lost their standing after the war has denied to accept the truth.
They don’t want to understand that it’s time for us to build up our country .
They want war ,again !
They said that they are trying to bring freedom and democracy to Vietnam, but all they have done are just for their selfish purposes.
We all consider them the betrayers to their homeland, to their people.
They have done nothing for their country ,but have obstructed their country to build an equitable, democratic, civilized society !
Believe me, a Vietnamese from Vietnam !
And I believe that the most of Vietnameses agree with me.
JohnDubYa, May I consider you as a friend of Vietnameses ?
Or someone else ?

You seem interested in Vietnam. But why ?
I need your answer to continue.So,answer it sincerely, please.
I just feel disappointed because I suppose that you are really don't care whatever I say. :frown:
You always make questions, and I have answered them sincerely from Agent Orange problem,POW torture, LBJ ,to Human right...
But you always change the topic without admiting the previous one.
do you take care of what I have said.I give you a lot of information (most of them that came from Americans , not from Vietnameses),enough for your judgement.But it seems that you ignore it all.
Again, may I consider you as a friend of Vietnameses ?
If you really want to help Vietnam,want to be a friend of Vietnam, I will try my best to answer your questions although it take me much time !
Think about it, Ok ? JohnDubya !
 
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  • #114
hiphys said:
You always make questions, and I have answered them sincerely from Agent Orange problem,POW torture, LBJ ,to Human right...
But you always change the topic without admiting the previous one.
B]

yeap! That's why I stop posting; if he continues making questions we will end questioning ourselves about the beginnig of life. But I would say it's more correct to say he changes topic without considering the previous one, not "admiting" the previous one.
Although I must admit that nevertheless we don't think in the same way, he is not a jerk...like others in this forum...John...nothing personal, i still like you :wink:
 
  • #115
Hyphis – Below are listed the names of individuals holding key positions in your country’s government. I'm not sure it’s current, so feel free to alter the list.

General Secretary, Communist Party - Nong Duc Manh
President - Tran Duc Luong
Prime Minister - Phan Van Khai
First Dep. Prime Min. - Nguyen Tan Dung

No individual is perfect, not you, not I, not our leaders. Our leaders all create policies that as individuals we dislike. I am an enthusiastic supporter of President Bush but I can think of several important issues wherein I dislike his policies.

For each NEGATIVE comment concerning the individuals named above, I will provide a very important economic reason why the USA should help your nation.

For instance I’ve provided a negative comment re: the General Secretary.

Nong Duc Manh was responsible for a particularly repressive law giving the culture and information minister full control over the media and, in particular, the Internet. Sylvaine Pasquier, reporter for the French weekly L'Express, was arrested and expelled from the country in April 2000 after trying to meet dissidents.

Your comment must address an issue equally as important.

IF you’re are not responsive to my request, I will assume it is due to fear of persecution by your government. Such a government cannot be trusted to utilize US aid to benefit their citizens.
 
  • #116
hiphys, you still haven't answered my question about the Vietnamese' ability to express criticism of the government. Why not? Can you write an editorial in the local newspaper criticizing the government?

Just answer the goddamn questions already! If the answer is no, just say so! What is the problem answering the question?
 
  • #117
JohnDubYa said:
hiphys, you still haven't answered my question about the Vietnamese' ability to express criticism of the government. Why not? Can you write an editorial in the local newspaper criticizing the government?

Just answer the goddamn questions already! If the answer is no, just say so! What is the problem answering the question?

Exactly my sentiments!
 
  • #118
JohnDubYa , I’m proud to answer that : “ Yes, I can.”
I wish that some of you can read some newspapers in Vietnamese to prove what I say.
In Vietnam, there are not many e-newspapers, and I really don’t know any e-newspaper in English.
What’s a pity !
It’s understandable.Vietnam is still a poor country.Many of us even don’t know what computer is.
In many Vietnamese newspapers, you can find the “suggestion of citizens” columns.They often appear on page 2 or 3.Everybody can complain about the things that they don’t agree with our government , give their suggestion to solve problems in this column.
I, myself, have never written anything on this column, but some of my friends have written.
Here, every citizens can criticize from a police to the government if they don’t do their duty well.
Now, in many newspapers, the topic “ Using talented persons policy” is discussed widely. Many people criticize that the government haven’t done well in searching, educating, and using national talented persons.
They criticize that many talented persons move to richer countries because in Vietnam, they don’t have good working-condition, because many State agencys still haven’t clear enough policy of employment that leading the existence of employing the so called “con ong chau cha “ ( in English : people who have relation with the management board)…
Now ,the government have invited many social researchers, educative researchers… to discuss about this problem .
In the past, many corruption were stripped naked by the citizens’ denouncement through newspapers such as NamCam gangs sentence (many officials in police were offered a bribe to keep their mouth shut by these gangs, including a general ), a vice minister was accused of child-raping, an agricultural minister was accused of less reponsibility in his work leading damage, a police accused of hitting innocent people…
In the recent days, our government even annouce that they place newspapers an order to criticize the corruption in our society.
Ya, perhaps, you feel that’s not enough, you think that there are many thing for our government to do to prove the human rights in Vietnam.
I agree with this.
What I want to say here is that we are still imperfect in many problems, but what our government is doing now make us believe that we are on the right way.
What we need now is a helping hand (that doesn’t mean only money !) to make progress in the future.
Before closing,I want to give a quote of an American veterant who fought in Vietnam and has lived a long time here after the war :

Political change will come to Vietnam as they become more involved within the world economic and political community. Political change will come as it has to many other countries including America with the social and economic development of the people. The more economically free that Vietnamese people become the more political change will come.

During the Vietnam War we dropped more bombs in Vietnam then we did during all of World War II. If we want the Vietnamese to change, they must be treated with respect and equality. If we learn anything from the Vietnam War is that we cannot bomb people into submission and we cannot economically or politically subjugate them into acting the way we would prefer.

We must work with the Vietnamese as partners if we are to accerlate positive change in this grand and proud country. From my experience, the current legislation being considered by the Congress would have a negative impact on the relationships between our country and change which have been instituted by the Vietnamese.

Finally, let me say that my experience in Vietnam as a returning veteran was an epiphany from the day I arrived until my departure. I was treated with the highest sense of courtesy, respect and kindness by all of the people that I met. From the highest government executives to the taxi drivers and vendors in the markets. A common desire to have good relationships with the United States was expressed. I expect to return to Vietnam and I would urge other Vietnam Veterans and U.S. cictizens to go to Vietnam and witness for themselvesf the realty that Vietnam is today. Vietnam is moving in the right direction. We should work and cooperate with them in order for them to achieve a better quality of life for the Vietnamese people.
 
  • #119
I'm going to travel to Soc Trang, a province in the south of Vietnam.My friend in college has invited me.I may stay their for a month, or more.
I suppose that in Soc Trang,there are not many computer connecting to the internet , so I may not answer your question right away.But please post more questions, I'll answer them as soon as possible.
Goodbye,everybody.
I'' be back ! Seeya.
 
  • #120
Vietnam's communist rulers continue to commit human rights abuses, according to the 2002 State Department Human Rights Report for that country.

Released March 31, the report says that, although the intrusiveness of the communist state has abated somewhat, the people of Vietnam are denied basic freedoms of speech, press, and assembly.

On the other hand, the report notes, Vietnam's communist party "continued its efforts to strengthen the mechanism for citizens to petition the Government."

Ultimately, however, the State Department says the communist authorities "continued to deny citizens the right to change their government."

While members of Vietnam's public security forces "committed numerous human rights abuses," during 2002, the report says the Hanoi regime "did not permit human rights organizations to form or to operate."

Furthermore, the State Department says, religious groups in that nation face persecution, especially Buddhists, Hoa Hao, and Protestants.

"Trafficking in women and children for the purpose of prostitution within the country and abroad continued to be serious problems," the report says, "and there were reports of the trafficking of women to China and Taiwan for arranged and forced marriages."

The complete State Department report on Vietnam, and on other countries in the region can be found at:

http://usinfo.org/wf-archive/2003/030401/epf209.htm

(New York, July 30, 2004)—The Vietnamese government should immediately release Dr. Nguyen Dan Que, a 62-year-old physician who was sentenced to two and a half years’ imprisonment for “abusing democratic freedoms,” Human Rights Watch said today. Dr. Que is one of three dissidents, all winners of the prestigious Hellman/Hammett award for persecuted writers, convicted this month solely for exercising their rights to freedom of expression.
None of these men should have been imprisoned in the first place. The Vietnamese government must cease its heavy-handed attempts to silence its critics.
Sam Zarifi, deputy director, Asia Division


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On Thursday, Dr. Que, a longtime human rights advocate, was convicted for writing an essay—distributed over the Internet—about state censorship of information and the media. Since his arrest in March 2003, he has been held in incommunicado detention.

Two other elderly dissidents were also convicted in July. Pham Que Duong, 73, a prominent military historian and former army colonel, was tried on July 9. Tran Khue, 68, a sociologist and professor at the University of Ho Chi Minh City, was tried on July 14. Both were convicted and sentenced to 19 months’ imprisonment. Because of time served, they are expected to be released within a week. The men had faced official pressure since they proposed establishing an independent anticorruption organization in 2001, and after signing a petition along with 21 other dissidents in 2002 to Vietnam’s National Assembly calling for democratic reforms.

All three men were convicted under Vietnam’s Criminal Code for “abusing democratic freedoms to infringe upon the interests of the state.”

“None of these men should have been imprisoned in the first place,” said Sam Zarifi, deputy director of the Asia Division of Human Rights Watch. “The Vietnamese government must cease its heavy-handed attempts to silence its critics.”

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/07/30/vietna9168.htm

Abusing democratic freedoms to infringe upon the interests of the state? If that isn't code for "criticizing the government," then what is?
 

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