Kinematics of a Pendulum with Two Different Masses

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the kinematics of a pendulum system involving two different masses. Participants explore various methods to analyze the motion, including vector approaches, energy conservation principles, and Lagrangian mechanics. The focus is on deriving equations of motion and understanding the dynamics of the system at a specific angle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using vectors and the energy principle to analyze the pendulum's motion, specifically at an angle of 30 degrees.
  • Another participant proposes that mechanical energy conservation could be a suitable method, starting with total mechanical energy set to zero.
  • Some participants express a desire for alternative approaches, with one mentioning the Lagrangian formulation and questioning the solvability of the equations of motion analytically.
  • A detailed Lagrangian is presented by a participant, including kinetic and potential energy terms, along with the Euler-Lagrange equations derived from it.
  • Concerns are raised about the appropriateness of certain terms in the Lagrangian, particularly regarding the kinetic energy of the vertically hanging mass.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the best approach to analyze the pendulum's motion, with no consensus on the most effective method or the correctness of specific terms in the Lagrangian formulation.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the generalized coordinates and constraints of the system, as well as the validity of certain kinetic energy terms in the Lagrangian. These aspects may affect the overall analysis.

Kokobird321
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Summary:: Classical problem about a pendulum!

The problem itself:
1600115362092.png


My FBD:
1600115379023.png

I want to solve the problem with vectors, I think that you can use energy principle somehow. If we define the vector ##\vec{O}_B=\begin{bmatrix}0\\ -1\end{bmatrix}## and define a rotational matrix where

$$R=\begin{bmatrix}cos\varphi & -\sin\varphi\\ \sin\varphi & \cos\varphi\end{bmatrix}$$

just to rotate the vector ##O_B## 30 degrees counterclockwise, but I will need to know its velocity ##\dot{\theta}## when ##\theta=30^{\circ}## somehow. Not sure how to proceed though.
 
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I think mechanical energy conservation is the way to go. Start with total mechanical energy equal to zero and then sort out the various kinetic and potential energies when the angle is 30o.
 
It becomes very trivial, I wanted a different approach :smile:
 
Kokobird321 said:
It becomes very trivial, I wanted a different approach :smile:
Lagrangian formulation? I am not sure whether the equations of motion are solvable analytically.
 
Sure why not! For the lagrangian I get

$$\mathcal{L}=T-V=\frac{1}{2}m(L\dot{\theta})^2+\frac{1}{2}M(L\dot{\theta})^2+\frac{1}{2}k_T\theta^2-(Mgh-mgH)$$

so

$$\mathcal{L}=T-V=\frac{1}{2}m(L\dot{\theta})^2+\frac{1}{2}M(L\dot{\theta})^2+\frac{1}{2}k_T\theta^2-Mg\left[\sqrt{2}L-2Lsin\left(\frac{90-\theta}{2}\right)\right]+mg\left[L-L\cos\theta\right]$$

$$\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial\theta}=k_T\theta-MgL\frac{1}{2}\cos\left(45-\frac{\theta}{2}\right)+mgL\sin\theta$$

and

$$\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial \dot{\theta}}=mL^2\dot{\theta}+ML^2\dot{\theta}\Longrightarrow\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial\dot{\theta}}\right)=mL^2\ddot{\theta}+ML^2\ddot{\theta}=\ddot{\theta}(mL^2+ML^2).$$

Euler-Lagrange gives

$$\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial\dot{\theta}}\right)=\frac{\partial\mathcal{L}}{\partial\theta}\iff \ddot{\theta}(mL^2+ML^2)=k_T\theta-MgL\frac{1}{2}\cos\left(45-\frac{\theta}{2}\right)+mgL\sin\theta$$

$$\ddot{\theta}=\frac{1}{mL^2+ML^2}\left[k_T\theta-MgL\frac{1}{2}\cos\left(45-\frac{\theta}{2}\right)+mgL\sin\theta\right]$$

How do I proceed from here? :smile:
 
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What are your generalized coordinates? What are the constraints?

The term ##\dfrac{1}{2}ML^2\dot \theta^2## doesn't look right to me for the kinetic energy of the vertically hanging mass.
 

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