Lagrangian invariance under infinitesimal transformations

ShayanJ
Science Advisor
Insights Author
Messages
2,801
Reaction score
606
This is my second term in my master's and one of the courses I've taken is QFT1 which is basically only QED.
In the last class, the professor said the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian has a global symmetry under elements of U(1). Then he assumed the transformation parameter is infinitesimal and , under the assumption that the first order transformation leaves the Lagrangian invariant, derived a conserved current.
Now it seems to me that because the Lagrangian is invariant under a finite transformation, and the terms in the Taylor expansion with different orders of parameter are linearly independent, the Lagrangian should also be invariant under each term of the Taylor expansion separately and there should be a conserved current associated to every order.
But when I explained the above line of reasoning to the professor, he said there may be anomalies or something like this. It was really vague actually and I didn't understand what he said. But I figured the above line of reasoning can't go wrong in the case of U(1) so whatever he meant must apply to other symmetry groups. Because for those groups the transformations are done by matrices and the Taylor expansion of matrices is not very straightforward. But still I can't understand what can go wrong.
Can anybody explain further?
Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Shyan said:
This is my second term in my master's and one of the courses I've taken is QFT1 which is basically only QED.
In the last class, the professor said the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian has a global symmetry under elements of U(1). Then he assumed the transformation parameter is infinitesimal and , under the assumption that the first order transformation leaves the Lagrangian invariant, derived a conserved current.
Now it seems to me that because the Lagrangian is invariant under a finite transformation, and the terms in the Taylor expansion with different orders of parameter are linearly independent, the Lagrangian should also be invariant under each term of the Taylor expansion separately and there should be a conserved current associated to every order.
But when I explained the above line of reasoning to the professor, he said there may be anomalies or something like this. It was really vague actually and I didn't understand what he said. But I figured the above line of reasoning can't go wrong in the case of U(1) so whatever he meant must apply to other symmetry groups. Because for those groups the transformations are done by matrices and the Taylor expansion of matrices is not very straightforward. But still I can't understand what can go wrong.
Can anybody explain further?
Thanks

No, in local field theory, you don’t get any new current. Consider, the K-G field and U(1) transformation e^{i\epsilon}. The “currents” associated with odd powers of \epsilon coincide with the usual Noether current associated with first order power, while those associated with even powers of \epsilon are not conserved: To see that look at the transformations to second order:
\delta \phi = ( i \epsilon - \frac{1}{2} \epsilon^{2} ) \phi .
\delta \phi^{\dagger} = (- i \epsilon - \frac{1}{2} \epsilon^{2} ) \phi^{\dagger} .
Look at the signs of the second order terms, they are the same, and this prevents you from having conserved “current”. Indeed, if you substitute the above transformations in the U(1) Noether current of the complex KG Lagrangian, you obtain
J^{\mu}(\epsilon) = i \epsilon \left( \phi \partial^{\mu} \phi^{\dagger} - \phi^{\dagger} \partial^{\mu} \phi \right) + \frac{1}{2} \epsilon^{2}\left( \phi \partial^{\mu} \phi^{\dagger} + \phi^{\dagger} \partial^{\mu} \phi \right)
Now, if you write the current as
J^{\mu}(\epsilon) = i \epsilon J_{1}^{\mu} + \frac{1}{2} \epsilon^{2} J_{2}^{\mu}
You can identify
J_{1}^{\mu}(x) = \phi \partial^{\mu} \phi^{\dagger} - \phi^{\dagger} \partial^{\mu} \phi ,
as the conserved Noether current of the U(1) symmetry. But
J_{2}^{\mu}(x) = \phi \partial^{\mu} \phi^{\dagger} + \phi^{\dagger} \partial^{\mu} \phi ,
is not conserved.
 
  • Like
Likes bhobba
Insights auto threads is broken atm, so I'm manually creating these for new Insight articles. Towards the end of the first lecture for the Qiskit Global Summer School 2025, Foundations of Quantum Mechanics, Olivia Lanes (Global Lead, Content and Education IBM) stated... Source: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/quantum-entanglement-is-a-kinematic-fact-not-a-dynamical-effect/ by @RUTA
If we release an electron around a positively charged sphere, the initial state of electron is a linear combination of Hydrogen-like states. According to quantum mechanics, evolution of time would not change this initial state because the potential is time independent. However, classically we expect the electron to collide with the sphere. So, it seems that the quantum and classics predict different behaviours!
Back
Top