Lever Formula: F*a=Q*b or Q*a=F*b?

  • Thread starter Thread starter -Physician
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Formula Lever
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the lever formula and its correct representation, specifically whether it is expressed as F*a=Q*b or Q*a=F*b. Participants are exploring the definitions of the variables involved and the underlying principles of torque in relation to levers.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to clarify the definitions of the variables F, Q, a, and b. There is a focus on understanding the relationship between the two equations and the conditions for equilibrium in a lever system.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided explanations regarding the lever formula and the concept of torque. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of the equations presented, with no explicit consensus reached on the correct formulation. Additional questions about specific scenarios involving forces and distances are being raised.

Contextual Notes

One participant has introduced a specific scenario involving a lever with defined lengths and forces, prompting further inquiry into the application of the lever formula in that context. There is a suggestion that new topics should ideally be started in separate threads.

-Physician
Messages
85
Reaction score
0
Is the lever formula ##F*a=Q*b## or ##Q*a=F*b## is it the same thing ? thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I think that nobody has responded, because nobody is quite sure what you are talking about. Can you give us some indication of what F, Q, a, and b are supposed to be?
 
F-force
a-arm of force
b-arm of burden
Q-burden
 
-Physician said:
F-force
a-arm of force
b-arm of burden
Q-burden

Code:
F                                                           Q
|                                                            |
|                                                            |
|                                                            |
|                                                            |
V                 a                                b       V
_______________________________________
                                          /\
                                         /  \

If this is the situation, where 'F' is the applied force, 'a' is the distance between the point where F is applied and the pivot point (fulcrum), 'Q' is the weight of the load, and 'b' is the distance between the load and the fulcrum, then in order for the force applied to exactly balance the load, the equation is:

F*a = Q*b

If you think about it, this is clearly NOT the same as F*b = Q*a, which would be wrong. It's just basic algebra that these two equations are not equivalent. If you have 3*2 = 6*1, this is clearly not the same thing as saying that 3*1 = 6*2. The second equation is clearly wrong.

However, if you are looking for a physical explanation for why the lever formula is true, then it has to do the concept of torque. When the situation is in equilibrium (i.e. the lever is stable and is not falling in either direction), the sum of the torques (τ) around the pivot point is zero. Now, the magnitude of the torque due to the applied force F is given by the magnitude of F multiplied by the perpendicular distance between the pivot point and the point where F is applied. In this case, this distance is a. Hence, the magnitude of the torque due to force F is τF = F*a. Similarly, the torque due to the load is equal to the load force multiplied by the perpendicular distance between the load and the pivot point. τQ = Q*b.

When the system is in equilibrium, the net torque is zero, which means that the two torques are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction, hence they cancel each other out. If they're equal in magnitude, then τF = τQ, and so F*a = Q*b.

If you haven't encountered the concept of torque and you don't know what I'm talking about, then don't worry about it. Just ignore the previous two paragraphs.
 
there is an arm of length 200 mm which is pivoted at 40 mm. that means we are getting one lengths along pivot as 160 and 40=200. suppose i am applying a force of 10N on extreme end of shorter length. what force i will get on the other extreme end. you can see example at following image
 

Attachments

  • FORCE.GIF
    FORCE.GIF
    7.9 KB · Views: 516
mathuria1986 said:
there is an arm of length 200 mm which is pivoted at 40 mm. that means we are getting one lengths along pivot as 160 and 40=200. suppose i am applying a force of 10N on extreme end of shorter length. what force i will get on the other extreme end. you can see example at following image

Welcome to PF,

Generally, if you have a new topic, it's better to start a new thread rather than add on to somebody else's.

In any case, just use the formula that I discussed above. You have both lengths, and one out of the two forces. There is not reason why you can't use that equation to solve for the second force.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
986
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K