Lying politicians

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  • Thread starter Zero
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  • #26
Zero
Oh, please, Nicool003, you think Clinton's personal life is more important than Cheney's illegal activities with the energy companies, or his dealings with Saddam Hussien, or any of the countless un-American acts of the current cabal occupying the White House.
 
  • #27
kat
26
0
The two of you do realize that if a graph covering large money contributions and business interest against beneficial acts towards those companies (and there was one somewhere, I'll see if I can hunt it up) during the Clinton and Bush admin. the only difference was that one gave slightly more for a slightly lower payoff? or that a comparision of lies for all of the past presidents is absolutely, embarrasingly across the party lines? It's like comparing..apples..and well..apples.
 
  • #28
Zero
Kat, I did mention the lie that Clinton was a liberal, didn't I?
 
  • #29
kyleb
well Clinton was liberal, with his ethics anyway.
 
  • #30
drag
Science Advisor
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Greetings !
Originally posted by Zero
Oh, please, Nicool003, you think Clinton's personal life is more important than Cheney's illegal activities with the energy companies, or his dealings with Saddam Hussien, or any of the countless un-American acts of the current cabal occupying the White House.
"Un-American" ?
No offense Zero, but you clearly have no idea
whatsoever of how the world really works -
or to be more "accurate" you're playing the
innocent too much...:wink:
And, since there's no way you can possibly not
know history - you also appear to ignore it too.

The only reason that we have come to hear of much of
this stuff is because the cold world ended and things
get more "open" all over the world. The US and
indeed any powerful country, not mentioning a
super-power in this case, can not exist in the
REAL world without some "Un-American", as you called it,
stuff involved.

In recent years however, I believe the US "Un-American"
acts level is very small and low by comparisson to
the past and much of it has positive purposes,
while it appears to have decreased much less in
France, for example. Also, after 9/11, there are
many relevant acts that are no more "Un-American"
to the majority in the US. (Now it is OK to shoot
a missile at a terrorist - finally !)

Live long and prosper.
 
  • #31
Zero
Clinton was a political moderate, which brings up a few lies about him, and Bush, seeing as how Bush was blasted for continuing certain programs started by Clinton.

As far as this administration's anti-American behavior....of course they use the WTC attack to justify anything, but it is certainly traitorous to let them.
 
  • #32
kat
26
0
Originally posted by Zero
Kat, I did mention the lie that Clinton was a liberal, didn't I?
Lol, Zero..which president do you consider a true liberal that didn't lie?

I don't really remember specifics about Carter, I suppose I should some day delve into his presidency..I do remember that he wasn't a particularly good president, even if he was very intelligent and maybe even a good man..but other then him I don't know of one that did not have something shadey going on. Do you?
 
  • #33
kyleb
are you trying to justify the situation with moral relativity kat?
 
  • #34
Zero
Originally posted by kat
Lol, Zero..which president do you consider a true liberal that didn't lie?

I don't really remember specifics about Carter, I suppose I should some day delve into his presidency..I do remember that he wasn't a particularly good president, even if he was very intelligent and maybe even a good man..but other then him I don't know of one that did not have something shadey going on. Do you?
Carter was...better than people say, but faced with tough decisions. He has found his true calling post-presidency. Of course, the current pack of ultra-right wing hacks is degrading him publicly, for daring to speak against their messiah, Bush. When someone wins a Nobel Prize, you should maybe respect the man, if not his views.

Gore isn't that bad at all, actually, since most of what I heard about him was lies and stories blown way out of proportion.
 
  • #35
kat
26
0
Originally posted by Zero
Carter was...better than people say, but faced with tough decisions. He has found his true calling post-presidency. Of course, the current pack of ultra-right wing hacks is degrading him publicly, for daring to speak against their messiah, Bush. When someone wins a Nobel Prize, you should maybe respect the man, if not his views.

Gore isn't that bad at all, actually, since most of what I heard about him was lies and stories blown way out of proportion.
Well, I don't really care to judge by what people say, I'll judge on my research when I get time to do it. I only meant that my remembrances of his presidency were that he was a bit wishy washy and maybe not as effective as he could have been..but I wasn't so old then either so my memory may reflect that of the adults in my life more so then a factual basis.

As for the Nobel prize, I respect Carter for what he has done that I am familiar with..but not because of the Nobel Prize..Arafat won the peace prize as well, and well I'm sorry..I cannot give him my respect.

As for Gore, I don't think he was a bad man..but his honesty as a president can not be proven or disproven as he has not reached that office. So to me it's irrelevent to my questions, of which you really haven't answered, so I will repeat, if you don't mind.

"which president do you consider a true liberal that didn't lie?"
" but other then him I don't know of one that did not have something shadey going on. Do you? "
 
  • #36
kat
26
0
Originally posted by kyleb
are you trying to justify the situation with moral relativity kat?
Not a chance.
 
  • #37
kyleb
then what is your point?
 
  • #38
Zero
Hey, Kat, The last 'liberal' president was Kennedy, I'm sure. Politicians aren't ever truely liberal.
 
  • #39
156
2
A little off topic, but just to note about the nature of politicians...

I was at a dinner party one night a few months ago and there was this politician who was currently running against an incumbent (party affiliation purposely withheld). This guy picked up my baby nephew and was just holding him with absolute interest. When notifying him that we lived in a different voting district and there was no recent gerrymandering, he hands the baby back and "well gotta go."

Politics is such a dirty game :smile:

This is why I avoided becoming a political science major and going into politics because of the whole "going on campaign to shake babies and kiss hands" thing.
 
  • #40
kat
26
0
oops, missed your post kyleb. I think if you glance back through this thread and read my previous post you'll see that I've previously made my point.
 
  • #41
Nicool003
Oh, please, Nicool003, you think Clinton's personal life is more important than Cheney's illegal activities with the energy companies, or his dealings with Saddam Hussien, or any of the countless un-American acts of the current cabal occupying the White House.

Dealings with Saddam Hussien?! Cheney?! Give me proof that isn't from Clinton or Al Gore!


And no I take into consideration BILL CLINTON dealing with Chinese and Russian military (HE GAVE THEM MILITARY SECRETS FOR PETES SAKES)
and his immature scum deliberately destroyed thousands of dollars of furniture and white house property before they moved out and PRESIDENT Bush moved in.
 
  • #42
kyleb
Originally posted by kat
oops, missed your post kyleb. I think if you glance back through this thread and read my previous post you'll see that I've previously made my point.
well i have been reading along but that bit about Carter is what struck me off guard, it seemed like you were saying that what Bush is doing now is justfied somehow by what Carter did back then.
 
  • #43
damgo
Nicool, I don't know about Cheney, but Rumsfeld was Special Envoy to Baghdad in 1984 (date?) or around then. At that point, the US was actively supported in Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war: selling them arms, providing them with intelligence, offering them US Navy protection, and 'reflagging' their tankers (putting US flags on them so Iranian ships could not sink them.)

Iraq had started the war against Iran, to seize the valuable land on Iran's side of the Shatt al Arab river -- just as it later started a war to seize Kuwait -- and by that time, Iraq had begun using chemical weapons against Iran, mainly against Pasdaran "human wave" assaults. At this time, Rumsfeld was in Baghdad, instructing Saddam on the finer points of killing Iranians. Take a look (sorry I couldn't find a better pic): http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~alis/rumsfeldnsaddam.jpg

There are plenty of recent articles about this if you do a Google news search.
 
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  • #44
Zero
Originally posted by Nicool003
Dealings with Saddam Hussien?! Cheney?! Give me proof that isn't from Clinton or Al Gore!


And no I take into consideration BILL CLINTON dealing with Chinese and Russian military (HE GAVE THEM MILITARY SECRETS FOR PETES SAKES)
and his immature scum deliberately destroyed thousands of dollars of furniture and white house property before they moved out and PRESIDENT Bush moved in.
Just because you don't like facts, it doesn't make them go away...and you should stop ranting, you would come across much better if you turned the volume down, ok?

And if you still believe the lie about Clinton vandalizing the White House, you won't be able to keep up with political reality, now will you?
 
  • #45
russ_watters
Mentor
19,861
6,286
Originally posted by Zero
And if you still believe the lie about Clinton vandalizing the White House, you won't be able to keep up with political reality, now will you?
Thats not a lie, Zero, its a tradition. Most presidents do it. Clinton just took it to the extreme.
 
  • #46
Zero
Originally posted by russ_watters
Thats not a lie, Zero, its a tradition. Most presidents do it. Clinton just took it to the extreme.
The way it was reported was a lie. It was reported that he cleaned teh place out, and broke whatever he couldn't take. Some people reported it like he was stealing from the White House. There were plenty of retractions...on page 17.
 
  • #47
Nicool003
Just because you don't like facts, it doesn't make them go away...and you should stop ranting, you would come across much better if you turned the volume down, ok?

No I am not "ranting" for petes sakes I should probably just leave PF because almost EVERYONE that comes into the PaWa forum is a blasted democrat! You say "i can't accept the facts" what bull crap! You are the one that twists everything me, russ, alias, or one of the few other republicans, independents or FAIR PEOPLE that come here. You are the one that is Pro Bill clinton, the jerk that didn't do ANYTHING but since most Americans got lazy until 9/11 woke us up, that was just "FINE" because they didn't want anything to happen. Well thanks to his laziness we weren't ready for anything. Had another president won things would have faired much better. He brought down the military pay, cut people out of the military, gave secrets to the enemy... oh the list doesnt end. And by the way, I'm not a republican exactly, although since I have started looking at the PaWa forum and seen all the democratic Lies, I have started leaning that way.
 
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  • #48
kyleb
lol Nicool003, you should stick around and learn something instead. you might be supervised to know that i am not a democrat by any means. i live in one of the most republican states in the country, and while i am not as right wing as most of the people here Kansas, i tend to prefer republican candidates in general. i am generally against authoritarianism but personally i am rather conservative; but it isn't about taking a side for me, it is standing up for what i belive is best for us all.
 
  • #49
Nicool003
lol Nicool003, you should stick around and learn something instead. you might be supervised to know that i am not a democrat by any means. i live in one of the most republican states in the country, and while i am not as right wing as most of the people here Kansas, i tend to prefer republican candidates in general. i am generally against authoritarianism but personally i am rather conservative; but it isn't about taking a side for me, it is standing up for what i belive is best for us all

I didn't say you were democrat. Although when we first met we didn't get along at all, that wasn't a political matter such as world affair. I never thought you were democrat.
 
  • #50
Zero
Originally posted by Nicool003
No I am not "ranting" for petes sakes I should probably just leave PF because almost EVERYONE that comes into the PaWa forum is a blasted democrat! You say "i can't accept the facts" what bull crap! You are the one that twists everything me, russ, alias, or one of the few other republicans, independents or FAIR PEOPLE that come here. You are the one that is Pro Bill clinton, the jerk that didn't do ANYTHING but since most Americans got lazy until 9/11 woke us up, that was just "FINE" because they didn't want anything to happen. Well thanks to his laziness we weren't ready for anything. Had another president won things would have faired much better. He brought down the military pay, cut people out of the military, gave secrets to the enemy... oh the list doesnt end. And by the way, I'm not a republican exactly, although since I have started looking at the PaWa forum and seen all the democratic Lies, I have started leaning that way.
This isn't a rant? Calm down, and if you can't stay calm, take up fishing or something. It isn't my fault you are wrong. Very often wrong, if you think I 'support' any politician.
 

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