Maximal Ideals - Exercise 5.1 (ii) Rotman AMA

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Exercise 5.1 from Joseph J. Rotman's "Advanced Modern Algebra," specifically focusing on the properties of irreducible real polynomials and their degrees. Participants explore the implications of the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra and the nature of roots in real and complex polynomials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter seeks assistance with Exercise 5.1, Part (ii), indicating uncertainty about the maximum possible degree of an irreducible real polynomial.
  • Some participants suggest that the maximum possible degree is 2, but express uncertainty about the reasoning behind this assertion.
  • Deveno discusses the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra, explaining that every polynomial in $\Bbb C[x]$ splits into linear factors and that complex roots of real polynomials occur in conjugate pairs.
  • Peter questions the relevance of Deveno's analysis, noting that it pertains to $\Bbb C[x]$ rather than $\Bbb R[x]$, and expresses appreciation for the help while seeking clarification.
  • Further elaboration on real polynomials is provided, including an example of a real polynomial with non-real roots, emphasizing that such polynomials can be irreducible in $\Bbb R[x]$.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the conjugate pairs of roots and the conditions under which a polynomial is considered irreducible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the maximum degree of irreducible real polynomials, with some suggesting it is 2 while others remain uncertain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the reasoning or implications of the degree of irreducibility.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to the Fundamental Theorem of Algebra and the properties of complex conjugation, but does not resolve the assumptions or definitions regarding irreducibility in the context of real versus complex polynomials.

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I am reading Joseph J. Rotman's book: Advanced Modern Algebra (AMA) and I am currently focused on Section 5.1 Prime Ideals and Maximal Ideals ...

I need some help with Exercise 5.1, Part (ii) ... ...Exercise 5.1 reads as follows:

View attachment 5942

Can someone please help me to get a start on this exercise ...

Peter
 
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What is the maximum possible degree of an irreducible real polynomial (Hint: it's a small integer)?
 
Deveno said:
What is the maximum possible degree of an irreducible real polynomial (Hint: it's a small integer)?


Sorry for the late reply, Deveno ... I have been unwell for a while ...

i suspect from memory the maximum possible degree is 2 ... but I am not sure of the reasoning that establishes this fact ...

Again ... apologies for the lateness of my reply ...

Petet
 
Peter said:
Sorry for the late reply, Deveno ... I have been unwell for a while ...

i suspect from memory the maximum possible degree is 2 ... but I am not sure of the reasoning that establishes this fact ...

Again ... apologies for the lateness of my reply ...

Petet

The Fundamental Theorem of Algebra states that every polynomial in $\Bbb C[x]$ splits into linear factors of the form $(x - z_i)$ for roots $z_i \in \Bbb C$. In other words, the roots of a complex polynomial are complex numbers.

Since complex-conjugation $z \mapsto \overline{z}$ is a field automorphism, it follows that for any $p(x) \in \Bbb C[x]$, that:

$\overline{p}(\overline{z}) = \overline{p(z)}$.

(Here, if $p(x) = a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 +\cdots + a_nx^n$ then $\overline{p}(x) = \overline{a_0} + \overline{a_1}x + \overline{a_2}x^2 + \cdots + \overline{a_n}x^n$).

In particular, if $p(x) \in \Bbb R[x]$ (so that $\overline{p} = p$), we have for any root $z$ of $p$:

$p(\overline{z}) = \overline{p}(\overline{z}) = \overline{p(z)} = \overline{0} = 0$.

This is often paraphrased as "complex roots of real polynomials come in conjugate pairs".

Furthermore, for each such conjugate-pair, we have:

$(x - z)(x - \overline{z}) = x^2 - (z + \overline{z})x + z\overline{z} = x^2 - 2\mathfrak{Re}(z)x + |z|^2 \in \Bbb R[x]$.
 
Deveno said:
The Fundamental Theorem of Algebra states that every polynomial in $\Bbb C[x]$ splits into linear factors of the form $(x - z_i)$ for roots $z_i \in \Bbb C$. In other words, the roots of a complex polynomial are complex numbers.

Since complex-conjugation $z \mapsto \overline{z}$ is a field automorphism, it follows that for any $p(x) \in \Bbb C[x]$, that:

$\overline{p}(\overline{z}) = \overline{p(z)}$.

(Here, if $p(x) = a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 +\cdots + a_nx^n$ then $\overline{p}(x) = \overline{a_0} + \overline{a_1}x + \overline{a_2}x^2 + \cdots + \overline{a_n}x^n$).

In particular, if $p(x) \in \Bbb R[x]$ (so that $\overline{p} = p$), we have for any root $z$ of $p$:

$p(\overline{z}) = \overline{p}(\overline{z}) = \overline{p(z)} = \overline{0} = 0$.

This is often paraphrased as "complex roots of real polynomials come in conjugate pairs".

Furthermore, for each such conjugate-pair, we have:

$(x - z)(x - \overline{z}) = x^2 - (z + \overline{z})x + z\overline{z} = x^2 - 2\mathfrak{Re}(z)x + |z|^2 \in \Bbb R[x]$.

Hi Deveno,

I'm not sure what question of mine you're answering ... I was asking about $$\mathbb{R}[x]$$ ... you seem to have provided some analysis pertaining to the case of $$\mathbb{C}[x]$$ ...

Please forgive me if I have completely missed the point of your post ... and please know that I very much appreciate your help ...

Peter
 
Peter said:
Hi Deveno,

I'm not sure what question of mine you're answering ... I was asking about $$\mathbb{R}[x]$$ ... you seem to have provided some analysis pertaining to the case of $$\mathbb{C}[x]$$ ...

Please forgive me if I have completely missed the point of your post ... and please know that I very much appreciate your help ...

Peter

Real polynomials are precisely those complex polynomials that equal their own conjugate-polynomial.

Here is an example:

$x^2 + x + 1$ is a REAL polynomial. ONE complex root is the complex number:

$\omega = -\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}$, since:$\omega^2 + \omega + 1 = \left(-\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\right)^2 + -\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2} + 1$

$= \left(-\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\right)\left(-\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\right) + -\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2} + 1$

$=\dfrac{1}{4} -2i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{4} - \dfrac{3}{4} - \dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2} + 1$

$= 0$

By the discussion above, $\overline{\omega} = -\dfrac{1}{2} -i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}$ is *also* a root of $x^2 + x + 1$.

These two roots of this REAL polynomial $x^2 + x + 1$ are both non-real, and any possible factorization of a quadratic would be into the two linear factors $(x - r_1)(x - r_2)$, so since both roots are non-real, we see that $x^2 + x + 1$ is an irreducible quadratic in $\Bbb R[x]$ (there AREN'T any irreducible complex polynomials over $\Bbb C$ except those of degree 0 or 1).
 
Deveno said:
Real polynomials are precisely those complex polynomials that equal their own conjugate-polynomial.

Here is an example:

$x^2 + x + 1$ is a REAL polynomial. ONE complex root is the complex number:

$\omega = -\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}$, since:$\omega^2 + \omega + 1 = \left(-\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\right)^2 + -\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2} + 1$

$= \left(-\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\right)\left(-\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}\right) + -\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2} + 1$

$=\dfrac{1}{4} -2i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{4} - \dfrac{3}{4} - \dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2} + 1$

$= 0$

By the discussion above, $\overline{\omega} = -\dfrac{1}{2} -i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}$ is *also* a root of $x^2 + x + 1$.

These two roots of this REAL polynomial $x^2 + x + 1$ are both non-real, and any possible factorization of a quadratic would be into the two linear factors $(x - r_1)(x - r_2)$, so since both roots are non-real, we see that $x^2 + x + 1$ is an irreducible quadratic in $\Bbb R[x]$ (there AREN'T any irreducible complex polynomials over $\Bbb C$ except those of degree 0 or 1).
Thanks for the post, Deveno ...

That certainly clarified the matter ...

Appreciate your help ...

Peter
 

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