Molecular symmetry group of non-rigid molecules

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on determining the Molecular Symmetry (MS) group of non-rigid molecules, specifically butane, which has non-equivalent equilibrium versions. The concept of "feasible" operations from the Complete Nuclear Permutation Inversion (CNPI) group is highlighted as a method for identifying the MS group. The challenge arises when trying to define the MS group for butane, given its multiple stable conformers and the potential for interconversion between them due to relatively low energy barriers. The aim is to construct a character table for the MS group to derive selection rules for spectroscopy. It is noted that there are no CNPI elements linking energetically different minima, which complicates the characterization of eigenstates without solving the Schrödinger equation. The discussion emphasizes the need to consider stable conformers as distinct entities in this context.
Konte
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Hello everybody,

I have read some very interesting book (Molecular symmetry and Spectroscopy - Bunker and Jensen) that talk about how to find the Molecular Symmetry group (MS) of a molecule by using the concept of "feasible" operation from the Complete Nuclear Permutation Inversion (CNPI) group.
Following the explanation given by the authors, "feasible" operation is that can interconverts a numbered and equivalent equilibrium versions of the molecule (rigid or non-rigid).

Confident of this understanding, I tried and success on finding MS of some famous non-rigid molecule until I met certain hard case as of the butane molecule which have non equivalent equilibrium versions!

So, my question is :

How to define the MS group of such a non-rigid molecule that have non equivalent equilibrium versions, knowing that between theses non equivalent equilibrium versions, potential barrier is not too high and allow some interconversion between the different versions of the same molecule?

I attached here the potential energy of butane as an example of those molecule which have more than one equilibrium versions:

butane-config.png


Thank you very much everybody.

Konte.
 
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What's the ultimate goal? If it is spectroscopy, then the answer would be that you will find that the spectrum shows characteristics of both stable conformers.
 
DrClaude said:
What's the ultimate goal? If it is spectroscopy, then the answer would be that you will find that the spectrum shows characteristics of both stable conformers.

My goal is to construct the character table of the MS group and from that be able to find selection rules.
Your answer suggest that I have to consider both stable conformers as an independent (different) molecules?

Thanks .

Konte
 
There are no elements of the CNPI which would link energetically different minima of the potential energy surface.
 
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DrDu said:
There are no elements of the CNPI which would link energetically different minima of the potential energy surface.

Ok. Is there a formal way which permit me to characterize the eigenstates (with or without solving the Schrodinger equation) of such a molecule and having some selection rules?

Thanks.

Konte.
 
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