Motor Principle - Direction of Rotation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the direction of rotation of a loop of wire in an increasing magnetic field, focusing on concepts such as Lenz's law, Fleming's left hand rule, and the induced electromotive force (emf). It touches on theoretical aspects of electromagnetism and the application of these principles in scenarios like AC induction motors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that Lenz's law indicates the induced current will create a magnetic field to counteract the change in the external magnetic field, but the direction of rotation remains unclear.
  • Others emphasize that Fleming's left hand rule provides the direction of the force on a current-carrying conductor in a magnetic field, but the direction of the current in the coil is crucial for this determination.
  • One participant notes that the direction of the current affects the direction of the turning moment but not its magnitude, suggesting that Lenz's law comes into play once the coil starts to move.
  • Another participant points out that if the loop is oriented at 90 degrees to the magnetic field, maximum induced emf and current will occur, which is relevant for determining the direction of the induced current.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of Lenz's law and Fleming's left hand rule, indicating that there is no consensus on the direction of rotation or the conditions under which the induced current is determined.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about the orientation of the loop in the magnetic field and the specific conditions under which the induced emf is calculated. The discussion also highlights the importance of knowing the direction of the current in the coil for accurate application of the relevant laws.

fonz
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Evening,

I'm trying to work out the direction a loop of wire will rotate about an axis in an increasing magnetic field.

From what I understand by Lenz's law the induced current in the loop will create it's own magnetic field as to counteract the change in external magnetic field. I'm struggling by Fleming's left hand rule however to determine a direction of rotation.

I have attached an image, if somebody could clear this up this will definitely put me at rest.

Motor%2520Principle.jpg


Cheers
Dan
 
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You are mixing up a lot of physics ideas.
This is about the FORCE on a current carying conductor in a magnetic field.
Fleming's Left hand rule gives the direction of the force.
Your diagram does not show the direction of the current in the coil of wire!
You need to know that
 
technician said:
You are mixing up a lot of physics ideas.
This is about the FORCE on a current carying conductor in a magnetic field.
Fleming's Left hand rule gives the direction of the force.
Your diagram does not show the direction of the current in the coil of wire!
You need to know that

The direction of the current just affects the direction of the turning moment,not the magnitude.

Lenz's law will only come into play once the coil starts to move and will limit the acceleration.
 
technician said:
You are mixing up a lot of physics ideas.
This is about the FORCE on a current carying conductor in a magnetic field.
Fleming's Left hand rule gives the direction of the force.
Your diagram does not show the direction of the current in the coil of wire!
You need to know that

Sorry perhaps I should elaborate,

In this example what I am saying is the magnetic field shown in blue is increasing in the direction shown. Therefore an emf will be induced in the wire equal to the rate of change of this magnetic flux (Faraday's law). This emf will produce a current in the direction according to Lenz's law.

The induced current will obviously create it's own magnetic field as such to oppose the changing magnetic field (Lenz's law). It is the direction of which I am struggling to ascertain. So this loop is now carrying current and so should experience a force equal to the Lorentz Force (except the current is changing).

I am thinking about the AC induction motor where in this example the wire loop is the stator and the N-S pole is coil wound in the stator.

Thanks
Dan
 
My apologies fonz! I mis-read. Your first sentence. I thought you were looking at a coil with current flowing in it.
 
The way your diagram is drawn there is nof flux linking (going through) the loop and therefore the increasing magnetic field will not induce an emf.
If the loop is at 90 degrees to the field then the maximum induced emf (and therefore current) will be induced.
The emf is given by Faraday's law = rate of change of magnetic flux linkage and the direction of the emf and resulting current will try to prevent the change (increasing magnetic flux) occurring.
 

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