Need to calculate power expended by the motor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the power expended by a motor to carry a vehicle with specific parameters up a slope. Participants explore the implications of various forces acting on the vehicle, including gravitational forces and rolling resistance, while addressing the complexities of the slope's geometry and the coefficients of friction involved.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for power based on energy expended and time, attempting to calculate average velocity and power required to overcome gravitational and rolling resistance forces.
  • Another participant suggests using the formula P = F X V, emphasizing the need to consider both the slope resistance and rolling resistance as forces that may either add or oppose each other.
  • A participant expresses concern about the calculation of the slope angle and its representation in the equations used, noting that the slope is given and does not require recalculation.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriateness of the rolling resistance coefficient provided, with one participant suggesting it may be too high for asphalt surfaces.
  • A later post raises questions about the role of the friction coefficient and its potential impact on the vehicle's motion and the power required from the motor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to calculating the forces involved, particularly regarding the treatment of the slope and rolling resistance. Multiple competing views remain on how to accurately model the situation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their calculations, such as the assumption of constant speed, the accuracy of the rolling resistance coefficient, and the geometric considerations of the slope's shape.

OZwurld
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Homework Statement



i need to calculate the power used up to carry a vehicle with 433mm diameter wheels,mass of 163kg up a slope of 3%. The horizontal distance of the slope is 2.9km. The surface of the slope is asphalt with rolling resistance of 0.22

From the following motor specs:

Rated Power = 1800 W
Nominal Speed = 1060 RPM
Nominal speed= 111 rad/s
Nominal torque = 16.2 Nm
Nominal Torque = 16.2 Nm
Continuous Torque = 42 Nm (5.0 kW)

Homework Equations



P = Energy expended(E) / time (T);

where E = mgh*sin(α)

and T = height(H)/ average speed(Vavg);

The Attempt at a Solution



P = mgHsin(α)/ (H/Vavg)

-> The H cancels and are left with

P = mg*Vavg*sin(α)

→ One of the problems i have is i don't know how to find the average velocity but i think:

Nominal speed * radius = m/s

∴Vavg = 111*0.5*433mm = 24m/s

∴ P = 163*9.81*sin(3%)*24
= 20W

→ i am also not sure what to do about the rolling resistance but i think:

Rolling resistance Force(Frr = mg*rolling resistace(Crr))

Frr = 163*9.81*0.22
= 351N

And i know W = F*d

∴W = 351*2.5km = 877.5KJ

and i know P = w/t

and that t = d/s = 2.9Km/24m/s = 120.8s

∴P = W/t = 877.5KJ/120.8 = 7.26KW

Dont know if i should add or subtract from the previous power...

PLEASE HELP ANY1:cry:...

Thanks in advance:smile:
 
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It will be simpler to use P = F X V (which is the same as E X d / t).

According to the problem, it seems the speed is constant, so what do you think the average speed is?

You do not calculate the angle of slope correctly. Grade (Slope) on Wikipedia

The force F you are trying to find is actually a summation of 2 forces: the resistance due to the slope and the resistance due to the rolling resistance. Do they add up or are they in opposite directions? Do they oppose the motion of the vehicle, or do they help propel the vehicle? Answering these questions will help you find out if you need to add them or substract one from the other.
 
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@jack action thanks for your help:

1)I am assuming since you said all this forces are resistances then they should be "added" .

2)I didn't have to calculate the grade slope.. it was given as is , the car is going up a racing route with details given here [URL: http://www.mapmyride.com/za/sandton-gauteng/94-7-cycle-challenge-route-56201790] at the bottom of the page!

What is also worrying me is that the "hypotenuse" of this mountain is not really a straight-line like it would be in a conventional triangle... is the another to accommodate for this.. THANKS.
 
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OZwurld said:
1)I am assuming since you said all this forces are resistances then they should be "added" .

Yes

OZwurld said:
2)I didn't have to calculate the grade slope.. it was given as is , the car is going up a racing route with details given here [URL: http://www.mapmyride.com/za/sandton-gauteng/94-7-cycle-challenge-route-56201790] at the bottom of the page!

You've miss the point. Going back to the link I gave you, the angle of the slope is found with:

c9023169d6099ec637cab0bf42227400.png


So, your equation is:

sin α

Not:

sin(3%)

Although, for very small value of α, you can assume that sin α ≈ tan α ≈ α = %slope/100; But that is no what you did. You calculated sin(0.03) as if it was 0.03 deg, not 0.03 rad.

Another point: I don't know where that problem comes from, but the 0.22 rolling resistance coefficient is abnormally high for asphalt. It is a value more realistic for a wheel on sand. You can find some more realistic values for rolling resistance coefficient here.
 
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Thanks, one other thing though: on that wapsite there is both Friction Coefficient: 1.00 & Rolling Resistance Coefficient: 0.014,

How does the Friction Coefficient affect my vehicles motion, does it bring some kind of force?,...does it affect the power the motor uses up in this case!?
 
Thanks for everything...

@

"jack action"
 

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