Neutrinos back into the picture?

[beatrix kiddo]

the neutrinos come from cosmic rays, other planets, other stars.. they travel at nearly light speed, so we get a constant flow of these neutrino waves... and since objects absorb them, it's not like they're directly pushing everything down with the same force, so the net force isn't zero...

 

[beatrix kiddo]

i just read ur questions and i'll answer them but u can keep going if u wish

 

[Alkatran]

Oh, here's the best argument:
If the force on the Earth is uniform on all sides, why is it curving around the sun? Why does the force from FAR OFF places change radicly when we go on the other side of the sun, even though we have moved very little relative to them?

 

[chroot]

the neutrinos come from cosmic rays, other planets, other stars.. they travel at nearly light speed, so we get a constant flow of these neutrino waves... and since objects absorb them, it's not like they're directly pushing everything down with the same force, so the net force isn't zero...

Planets and stars are grouped into the galaxy in a non-uniform way. As you can see when you walk outside at night and look at the milky way, the stars and planets in our galaxy are organized more or less in the form of a disc.

If the neutrinos from these planets and galaxies are pushing on us and create gravity, then we'd have some serious problems:

1) We are near the edge of the galaxy. We are, at any rate, nowhere near its center. Thus the number of neutrinos hitting us from outside the galaxy would be much much smaller than the number hitting us from inside the galaxy. We'd be under a terrible imbalance and we would be rapidly pushed out of the galaxy.

2) Even if we were at the center of the galaxy, the force would be symmetric around galactic longitude. You would be weightless in every direction.

- Warren

 

[chroot]

What we can't figure out, beatrix, is how all the other planets and stars know to push us one direction into the Earth at noon (away from the sun), and then to instead push us the other way at midnight (toward the sun). Six months later, the situation is reversed, though, and all the other planets and stars would have to somehow switch gears and send their neutrinos the other way.

How do you respond?

- Warren

 

[beatrix kiddo]

Where are they coming from?

answered

How far into the Earth do they penetrate?

some pass straight through

Do they pass all the way through the earth?

answered

If so why don't they cancel out the effect of the sun?

they weren't absorbed

If they don't make it all the way through, why don't we weigh (a lot) less underground?

they do make it, objects in the Earth absorb them so u don't weigh a lot less

Why are the other planets keeping orbit if all these neutrinos happen to be perfectly lined up to keep gravity uniform on earth?

other planets maintain their orbit because the neutrinos are lined up for them too.

Why doesn't this incoming gravity change as we rotate around the sun?

distance isn't an issue with the push theory...

If it's focused on the sun why are we being pushed down when on the sides of the earth?

answered: the sun isn't the only supplier of neutrinos

 

[Alkatran]

answered

1: some pass straight through

2: answered

3: they weren't absorbed

4: they do make it, objects in the Earth absorb them so u don't weigh a lot less

5: other planets maintain their orbit because the neutrinos are lined up for them too.

6: distance isn't an issue with the push theory...

7: answered: the sun isn't the only supplier of neutrinos

1: Alright, so you're saying the absorption rate is low? That means that people on the other side of the planet are being affect by almost the same amount of neutrinos as we are, are being push away by these neutrinos, and are almost weightless. Also, the moon isn't orbiting the Earth because it has almost the same net force everywhere.
2: See 1
3: They have just as much chance of being absorbed by us as they do by the people in China. If most pass right through, they get almost the same force.
4: See 1 again.
5: Ok, so we have a sphere with infinite amount of centers... oh wait, that's IMPOSSIBLE. If the neutrinos are lined up for jupiter, it won't orbit the sun. If it's line up for the sun jupiter's moons orbit the sun and not jupiter!

6: Distance IS a factor. The father you are from the sun the more spread out the neutrinos coming from the sun are.

7: And these other suppliers change radicly summer to winter?

 

[beatrix kiddo]

note: the galaxies spin rapidly, so the objects along the edge aren't necessarily pushed out
it's not direct pushing though.. just like in einstein's model, pull is a term of convenience and so is push... the neutrinos are absorbed...
bodies generate neutrinos on all sides, warren. they don't "know" to push us one way or another. the earth, and everything else, is constantly being pelted with neutrinos. these neutrios get absorbed and that's what we percieve as gravity..

 

[chroot]

beatrix,

I love how you simply say 'answered' as if that's enough to convince us you're right. You certainly haven't answered to our satisfaction, and it really does seem to us as though you're just waving your hands and sticking your fingers in your ears while trying to dodge the obvious, glaring problems with your theory by inventing yet another amazing coindence.

- Warren

 

[Alkatran]

note: the galaxies spin rapidly, so the objects along the edge aren't necessarily pushed out
it's not direct pushing though.. just like in einstein's model, pull is a term of convenience and so is push... the neutrinos are absorbed...
bodies generate neutrinos on all sides, warren. they don't "know" to push us one way or another. the earth, and everything else, is constantly being pelted with neutrinos. these neutrios get absorbed and that's what we percieve as gravity..

So let me get this straight. Because the galaxy is spinning, creating a centrifuge (sp?) force OUTWARDS, we aren't flying off?

 

[beatrix kiddo]

distance isn't a factor because we are in a pool of them at all times. neutrinos that have traveled all over the universe, neutrinos left over from the big bang, etc.. gravity isn't a force it is purely emmission and absorption.. yeah that whole spinning galaxies thing was lame.. i'll come up with a better answer in a sec...

 

[Alkatran]

distance isn't a factor because we are in a pool of them at all times. neutrinos that have traveled all over the universe, neutrinos left over from the big bang, etc.. gravity isn't a force it is purely emmission and absorption.. yeah that whole spinning galaxies thing was lame.. i'll come up with a better answer in a sec...

The sun is millions of times closer than all those other galaxies, so the neutrinos coming from it are trillions of times more concentrated than the ones coming from elsewhere. Getting twice as close to the sun multiples the concentration of neutrinos from it by 4 times, but multiplies the concentration of neutrinos coming from lightyears away by 1 +- .0000000 [...] 1

Clearly this will make a large difference in the net force.

 

[beatrix kiddo]

ok.. yes I've got the answer. YAY READING! the neutrinos keep the galaxies together because they surround them like giant halos. that also compensates for the majority of missing matter in the galaxies..
"Since there is no evidence of any other forces at work besides gravity in creating the structure of the universe, the only reasonable possibility is that there is dark unseen matter around the galaxy, surrounding it like a huge invisible halo... And all the mathematics point to it making up a staggering 90 percent of all the matter in the universe." stephen hawking's universe pg. 163

 

[beatrix kiddo]

this also means that perhaps even solar systems are kept together by a circle of neutrinos! and if neutrinos are indeed the most massive part of the galaxy, and they surround it, then according to einstein's model, wouldn't all the stars and junk sink into that ring of neutrinos??

 

[Alkatran]

ok.. yes I've got the answer. YAY READING! the neutrinos keep the galaxies together because they surround them like giant halos. that also compensates for the majority of missing matter in the galaxies..
"Since there is no evidence of any other forces at work besides gravity in creating the strcuture of the universe, the only reasonable possibility is that there is dark unseen matter around the galaxy, surrounding it like a huge invisible halo... And all the mathematics point to it making up a staggering 90 percent of all the matter in the universe." stephen hawking's universe pg. 163

You took that way out of context. If the neutrinos are around the galaxy, that means they aren't colliding with the objects within the galaxy and aren't giving any force to them. Right?

That quote was obviously in the context of dark matter, not neutrinos.

 

[Alkatran]

this also means that perhaps even solar systems are kept together by a circle of neutrinos! and if neutrinos are indeed the most massive part of the galaxy, and they surround it, then according to einstein's model, wouldn't all the stars and junk sink into that ring of neutrinos??

SPHERE, not CIRCLE. but anyways:

You've been saying all along that neutrinos move at near c. Otherwise they have virtually no energy. If they're just sitting in a giant shell around us, how are they interacting? Why doesn't this shell dissipate (entropy) as they move around?

 

[beatrix kiddo]

the book says that a halo could be made up of neutrinos or machos or wimps...

 

[beatrix kiddo]

but i think it's only neutrinos..the neutrinos obviously rotate around the galaxies... in huge circles, at the speed of light..

 

[Alkatran]

the book says that a halo could be made up of neutrinos or machos or wimps...

Well my mistake then, all I had was what you quoted. Unless you mean that dark matter is made of neutrinos.

But answer the second argument. How are they interacting? If they're moving into us then the shell wouldn't stay there, would it?

And you still haven't answered the all arguments about the force being inconsistent. A big shell of inward force doesn't solve it.

 

[Alkatran]

but i think it's only neutrinos..the neutrinos obviously rotate around the galaxies... in huge circles, at the speed of light..

Ah, of course. They're rotating around the galaxy.

Then what, pray tell, is making them change direction? Why don't they just go in straight lines?

 

[beatrix kiddo]

*nearly at the speed of light* and the only reason these neutrinos aren't being absorbed is because they are apart of our solar system's energy field and they keep everything in order.. everything has an energy field, right??

 

[beatrix kiddo]

gravity is a lot more complex than what anyone previously thought...

 

[beatrix kiddo]

think about tran... these neutrinos are surrounding galaxies... making up most of the mass, why aren't the galaxies falling around this ring since they are creating such large dents in space-time?

 

[beatrix kiddo]

Unless you mean that dark matter is made of neutrinos

wait.. u didn't know neutrinos make up dark matter?! they're "hot" dark matter to be more exact... i'll cite if u want me to...

 

[Math Is Hard]

but i think it's only neutrinos..the neutrinos obviously rotate around the galaxies... in huge circles, at the speed of light..

Actually, I think you probably mean "revolve around the galaxies".
No disrespect intended - it's just that astronomers can be really picky about misuse of terms like that.

 

[beatrix kiddo]

thanks.. no disrespect taken..

 

[beatrix kiddo]

everyone: i meant revolve... not rotate.. hehehe

 

[Alkatran]

wait.. u didn't know neutrinos make up dark matter?! they're "hot" dark matter to be more exact... i'll cite if u want me to...

No I didn't know neutrinos made up dark matter. But that doesn't matter because, according to you, gravity doesn't exist. So how are these neutrinos pushing us? And, as I said before, this point doesn't matter because it depends on the argument that the force changes drasticly from one place to another.

Oh, I've been using the word rotate a lot as well, but I mean "orbit".

 

[beatrix kiddo]

it has to deal with energy fields... the neutrinos create an energy field around us... this keeps us in order. gravity is emission and absorption. force won't change if the neutrinos around the solar system stabilize us. but this whole neutrino mass bit should matter to u, because u think gravity has to deal with space-time and the neutrinos are way more massive than the galaxy. shouldn't the galaxy sink into this large dent in space-time??

 

[Alkatran]

it has to deal with energy fields... the neutrinos create an energy field around us... this keeps us in order. gravity is emission and absorption. force won't change if the neutrinos around the solar system stabilize us. but this whole neutrino mass bit should matter to u, because u think gravity has to deal with space-time and the neutrinos are way more massive than the galaxy. shouldn't the galaxy sink into this large dent in space-time??

As I understand it, Dark Matter has the opposite effect of gravity. IE it curves space time in the opposite direction, making matter move away from it instead of towards it.