Non Newtonian / Newtonian Fluid interface

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the behavior of surface waves in a wave tank containing a shear thickening fluid (Oobleck) beneath a layer of water. Key points include the need for modeling to understand wave propagation at the Newtonian/Non-Newtonian fluid interface, as the interaction will likely involve continuous traction conditions. The presence of a thin membrane and the higher density of Oobleck compared to water raises questions about wave reflection and the applicability of Snell's law, suggesting that the wave may travel slower in the denser medium. Participants agree that the complexity of the system makes simple predictions challenging. Overall, further exploration and modeling are necessary to clarify these interactions.
Tom79Tom
Messages
45
Reaction score
3
Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

Will it be an applied force upon the Non Newtonian fluid that causes shear thickening ? Will it cause reflection of the wave at the interface ?

I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Tom79Tom said:
Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

Will it be an applied force upon the Non Newtonian fluid that causes shear thickening ? Will it cause reflection of the wave at the interface ?

I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
In my judgment, you need to do actual modeling of this problem to get a definitive answer. Neglecting surface tension, the boundary condition at the interface must be that the traction must be continuous (i.e., normal- and shear stresses).
 
Tom79Tom said:
Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

The thin membrane will cause additional effects; better to consider (for example) oobleck and vegetable oil; the oil is Newtonian and immiscible with oobleck (or a cornstarch solution if you prefer that).

Otherwise, I agree with Chestermiller- the system is too complex (nonlinear, for one) to make 'simple' predictions.
 
Thanks for your replys guys ! I'll ponder if another simpler scenario could answer my query
 
Tom79Tom said:
Suppose I have a wave tank partially filled with a shear thickening Newtonian fluid (Oobleck), on top of which sits a layer of water (separated by a thin membrane to prevent mixing)

If I propagate a surface wave in the water layer how will it conduct itself at the Newtonian/Non Newtonian Fluid interface and into the Non Newtonian fluid

Will it be an applied force upon the Non Newtonian fluid that causes shear thickening ? Will it cause reflection of the wave at the interface ?

I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
For water waves
"In water whose depth is large compared to the wavelength, the wave speed expression contains two terms, one for gravity effects and one for surface tension effects. The wave speed is
Waves-basic-terms_clip_image002_0000.gif

where g is the gravitational field strength, γ is the surface tension, ρ is the density of the water, and λ the wavelength. As this equation makes clear (wave speed depends on wavelength), water is a dispersive medium."
(http://practicalphysics.org/speed-water-waves.html) [I made a couple of obvious typo corrections spotted in the original quote above regarding the quantites in the equation ...]
I don't know if that can help. Perhaps it's not enough.
Tom79Tom said:
I also notice that Oobleck has a higher density than water- will Snells law also apply and the surface wave will travel slower in the higher density medium
Snell's law (of refraction) involves the angles of incidence and refraction. For surface waves (i.e. in 2 dim), you have to be more careful and specify the exact geometry. (Are we talking about surface waves at the same level, with the interface surface between the two media perpendicular? ...)
 

Attachments

  • Waves-basic-terms_clip_image002_0000.gif
    Waves-basic-terms_clip_image002_0000.gif
    1,009 bytes · Views: 447
Hi there, im studying nanoscience at the university in Basel. Today I looked at the topic of intertial and non-inertial reference frames and the existence of fictitious forces. I understand that you call forces real in physics if they appear in interplay. Meaning that a force is real when there is the "actio" partner to the "reactio" partner. If this condition is not satisfied the force is not real. I also understand that if you specifically look at non-inertial reference frames you can...
I have recently been really interested in the derivation of Hamiltons Principle. On my research I found that with the term ##m \cdot \frac{d}{dt} (\frac{dr}{dt} \cdot \delta r) = 0## (1) one may derivate ##\delta \int (T - V) dt = 0## (2). The derivation itself I understood quiet good, but what I don't understand is where the equation (1) came from, because in my research it was just given and not derived from anywhere. Does anybody know where (1) comes from or why from it the...
Back
Top