Non-contact methods for measuring voltage in conductive materials

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around non-contact methods for measuring voltage in conductive materials. Participants explore various techniques and theoretical considerations related to measuring voltage differences without physical contact, addressing both practical and conceptual challenges in the context of electrical metrology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using electromagnetic waves, such as lasers, to measure reflectivity as a potential method for determining voltage differences, though they express uncertainty about the relationship between reflectivity and local voltage.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that voltage would be uniform across a conductor, introducing the idea that temperature variations could lead to potential differences due to the Seebeck effect.
  • A participant with expertise in electrical metrology expresses skepticism about the existence of non-contact methods for DC voltage measurement, emphasizing the need for a reliable model that does not disturb the sample during measurement.
  • Some participants propose methods like potentiometric measurements and vibrating electrodes, noting that while these methods can minimize disturbance, they may still affect the voltage being measured.
  • The Kelvin probe method is mentioned as a potential technique for measuring contact potential differences without direct contact, but concerns are raised about its applicability and the requirement for the sample to be well-grounded.
  • There is discussion about the limitations of scanning gate spectroscopy as a method for voltage measurement, with some participants expressing uncertainty about its classification as a DC measurement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and practicality of non-contact voltage measurement methods. There is no consensus on a definitive method, and multiple competing approaches are presented, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that many proposed methods may still disturb the sample, and the effectiveness of techniques like the Kelvin probe method may depend on specific conditions, such as grounding of the sample. The discussion reflects the challenges in achieving non-contact measurements in practical scenarios.

fluidistic
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Consider a solid material such as a conductor. I would like to know if there are ways to determine the voltage at specific spots on the material, without plugging a metallic wire and connect it to a voltmeter. I know voltage is relative and I'm interested in checking voltage differences across different specific spots on a conductive material without making any physical contact that could disturb the potential difference. A high Tc superconductor would do the job, but only for temperatures too low for my interest.

I was thinking to use EM waves such as a laser and check the reflectivity for instance, but my knowledge is lacking and I do not know whether the reflectivity or other properties can depend on the local voltage.
 
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If the material is a conductor, wouldn't the voltage be substantially the same everywhere? Or perhaps there is a large current flowing that you didn't mention.

At very high voltages we have Corona. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge
 
anorlunda said:
If the material is a conductor, wouldn't the voltage be substantially the same everywhere? Or perhaps there is a large current flowing that you didn't mention.
Not necessarily. If the material lacks a uniform temperature, a Seebeck effect is going to take place, so there will be a potential difference between spots at different temperature even though there's no current.
 
I am not aware of any such method for DC voltages and I am pretty sure I would know about it if one existed (I work at an institute where we do a LOT of electrical metrology).
You would have to find an effect which allowed you to calculate the potential based on a measurement of some other property (e.g. some type of electrooptical effects); but then you would need to rely on some model and there is no guarantee that that measurement would not disturb the sample as well (lasers can cause a lot of local heating etc).
There are nearly always ways of getting round the fact that you will "disturb" the sample via a measurement; in some cases all you need is simply a good enough voltmeter (with a high enough input impedance) and/or the right measurement configuration. Voltage in one of the things we are VERY good at measuring.
 
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f95toli said:
I am not aware of any such method for DC voltages and I am pretty sure I would know about it if one existed (I work at an institute where we do a LOT of electrical metrology).
You would have to find an effect which allowed you to calculate the potential based on a measurement of some other property (e.g. some type of electrooptical effects); but then you would need to rely on some model and there is no guarantee that that measurement would not disturb the sample as well (lasers can cause a lot of local heating etc).
There are nearly always ways of getting round the fact that you will "disturb" the sample via a measurement; in some cases all you need is simply a good enough voltmeter (with a high enough input impedance) and/or the right measurement configuration. Voltage in one of the things we are VERY good at measuring.
Thanks. Indeed, I didn't realize it would perturb the system, which could be troublesome if the sample is small. I can imagine a sort of probe consisting of a capacitor with a voltmeter connected to it, measuring the induced charge when that capacitor passes nearby the sample. But it would modify the voltage of my sample, I think. Well, it's an electrostatics problem to solve.
 
fluidistic said:
I know voltage is relative and I'm interested in checking voltage differences across different specific spots on a conductive material without making any physical contact that could disturb the potential difference
I have some good news for you.
First, do you really need to have a non-contact measurements or are you only interested in not disturbing the potential?
If you just don't want to disturb the potential at the spot, you can use a potentiometric method. It is quite simple. You do have to attach a contact to the spot you want to measure potential at. Next, connect a current meter between your contact and a variable voltage source (the other side of the voltage source has to be connected to a reference point). Adjust the voltage source until you read zero current. That gives you the true voltage at that point.
There is also a way to measure voltage without making a contact by using a vibrating electrode. You have a small electrode vibrating close to the surface of you conductor. If there is any potential difference between your electrode and the surface, vibration will induce AC current synchronous with the vibration. Normally, bias the electrode to null the AC current and you can read the true voltage. The voltage is averaged over a certain area depending on the size of the vibrating electrode and the distance from the conductor. Furthermore, it actually measures contact potential difference and that is different than the voltage measured by the potentiometric method.
 
Henryk said:
I have some good news for you.
First, do you really need to have a non-contact measurements or are you only interested in not disturbing the potential?
If you just don't want to disturb the potential at the spot, you can use a potentiometric method. It is quite simple. You do have to attach a contact to the spot you want to measure potential at. Next, connect a current meter between your contact and a variable voltage source (the other side of the voltage source has to be connected to a reference point). Adjust the voltage source until you read zero current. That gives you the true voltage at that point.
There is also a way to measure voltage without making a contact by using a vibrating electrode. You have a small electrode vibrating close to the surface of you conductor. If there is any potential difference between your electrode and the surface, vibration will induce AC current synchronous with the vibration. Normally, bias the electrode to null the AC current and you can read the true voltage. The voltage is averaged over a certain area depending on the size of the vibrating electrode and the distance from the conductor. Furthermore, it actually measures contact potential difference and that is different than the voltage measured by the potentiometric method.

I think what you are describing is the Kelvin probe method. It is used to measure the "contact" potential difference. I put "contact" in parenthesis because in the KP method, the tip doesn't actually touch the surface. The surface resolution of this method depends on the size of the probe's tip. It can vary from the order of mm, all the way down to sub-microns in the case of KPFM (Kelvin probe forced microscopy).

The problem I see is that this method is typically used to measure the variation in the chemical potential, and consequently, the work function (if you know the potential of the tip of the probe). It requires that the sample is well-grounded. I am not sure if this is what the OP wants.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
The problem I see is that this method is typically used to measure the variation in the chemical potential, and consequently, the work function (if you know the potential of the tip of the probe). It requires that the sample is well-grounded. I am not sure if this is what the OP wants.

I thought of KP when answering the question; but I am not sure it is what the OP is after. KP (as well as many other SPM methods) are used quite heavily by some of my colleagues to study e.g. graphene Hall devices; but in all (I think) of their experiments they also have electrical connections to the sample so that they can selectively ground different electrodes.
Some other form of scanning gate spectroscopy might work; but it seems a bit too involved and I am not sure I would describe it as a "DC measurement" of voltage.
 

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