Overcoming Haughtiness for Scientists

[l-1j-cho]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

 

[fss]

"If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, don't say anything at all."

 

[lisab]

I'm atheist but the saying, "There, but for the grace of god, go I" is one worth taking to heart.

 

[Proton Soup]

i'm above that sort of thing, myself

 

[zomgwtf]

i'm above that sort of thing, myself

No you're not. I on the other hand...

 

[TylerH]

No you're not. I on the other hand...

You mean "[...] I,[/size] on [...]"

 

[zomgwtf]

You mean "[...] I,[/size] on [...]"

Don't correct me.

 

[chiro]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

Find people better than you, smarter than you, more humble than you.

If you do this, you will be humbled by them, and realize that you aren't as hot as what you seem.

Finally if someone smarter than you shows that are you are wrong on something, turn it into a positive thing: instead of envy, be ambitious to become better and rise to the highest level.

If you go through life never being challenged and never making mistakes, then you have really not lived at all.

 

[Pengwuino]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

Become a physicist. It humbles you fast.

 

[Dembadon]

Become a physicist. It humbles you fast.

Agreed!

Well, I'm not a physicist yet, but learning the subject definitely makes me feel like a big dummy quite often.

 

[mugaliens]

I'm atheist but the saying, "There, but for the grace of god, go I" is one worth taking to heart.

Wow! That's insightful, coming from an atheist. :)

"Just the facts, Ma'am," is my response. Nothing irks me more than when the guardians themselves develop delusions of grandeur (or at least misplaced perceptions of infallibility). "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3F" ? Can't wait to see the movie.

As an admin, I resorted to science, keeping track of infractions, but tossing the ones I knew were just tiffs between a user and a moderator ... into the moderator's bucket. I expected better from them, and I canned four moderators over the years because of unrestrained/unrepentant hautiness: "I have power! I am infallible! I am right, you are wrong, so shazam, you've been suspended!" or actions to that effect when, upon further review, it was merely a matter of a moderator sweeping things under the rug (unwarranted suspensions and thread lockings) instead of performing his/her moderator duties to ride herd on the herd so that they'd all, hopefully, find themselves greener pastures.

I viewed each thread as a herd heading in a direction. I viewed closing a thread as shooting the entire herd because a few of them got out of line. If I'd done that, the other moderators (sheepdogs) would have looked at with a "What the...?" look. A moderator's job is to nurture the herd into a productive direction, not shoot 'em all when a few get out of line. The only exceptions were spam/porn threads (dead in the water, in my book).

I had no (well, few) illusions of grandeur, and welcomed my mods to slam me with points the same as they'd slam others.

Interestingly, those who piled on the moist points were usually megalomaniacs vying for top spot. Those who conferred no points were often kiss-ups. But those that measured out their points, and did so for the right reasons, I could trust.

And we went on to do great things!

ETA: Ok, I know, that sounds haughty... :)

 

[cobalt124]

Find people better than you, smarter than you, more humble than you.

If you do this, you will be humbled by them, and realize that you aren't as hot as what you seem.

Finally if someone smarter than you shows that are you are wrong on something, turn it into a positive thing: instead of envy, be ambitious to become better and rise to the highest level.

If you go through life never being challenged and never making mistakes, then you have really not lived at all.

You've just described how I experience posting on PF.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

If you compare yourself with others you will become vain or bitter.

 

[cobalt124]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

Maybe this part (my bold) is stopping you. You are saying nothing can be done about it. It's possible to find a reason for your haughtiness, and then make a decision as to whether the reason justifies you behaviour, and then change the behaviour (if you choose to). Advice like "If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, don't say anything at all." (the Yorkshire equivalent being "if in doubt, say nowt") is all well and good, but papers over the issue IMO.

 

[dlgoff]

Agreed!

... learning the subject definitely makes me feel like a big dummy quite often.

Heck. Being a member here can do that.

 

[Chi Meson]

i'm above that sort of thing, myself

No you're not. I on the other hand...

You mean "[...] I,[/size] on [...]"

Don't correct me.

*sigh*

Typical

 

[Chi Meson]

In seriousness, I found (thankfully not too late in life) that people dislike those who try to tell everyone how smart they are.

People do however, look up to people who demonstrate their intelligence with helpful solutions.

If you simply can't help being "haughty," then at least be up front about it. If you catch yourself saying something that is condescending or rude or tactless, follow it up quickly with a good-humored line like "Or I might just be full of myself."

A little bit of self-effacing humor can take the edge off many unintended insults and save a lot of friendships. But then again, I tend to think I have all the answers.

 

[Lacy33]

people who demonstrate their intelligence with helpful solutions.

You mean like this:

In seriousness, I found (thankfully not too late in life) that people dislike those who try to tell everyone how smart they are.

"..........."

If you simply can't help being "haughty," then at least be up front about it. If you catch yourself saying something that is condescending or rude or tactless, follow it up quickly with a good-humored line like "Or I might just be full of myself."

A little bit of self-effacing humor can take the edge off many unintended insults and save a lot of friendships. But then again, I tend to think I have all the answers.

I see you riding around on a giants shoulders. Bet you can see a lot up there.

 

[TylerH]

Turning statements into questions can help make it seem like you aren't such an ***. I do it a lot. It also has a few good side effects, like making the person you're talking to think that you think they are intelligent(which they will enjoy, if they have respect/envy/etc. for you.) and it makes it seem like you are willing to defer, if need be(which can prevent harsh contradictions/disagreements).

 

[nismaratwork]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

If you like, you could share details of what you feel haughty about, and why, and we can systematically deflate your ego. I'm serious, not to be mean (I don't know you), but maybe you're wanting for perspective? We could certainly break you down to the frame-rails if that's what you'd like; just lead with some assumptions, make it clear that's what you want so as to avoid insult, and see if you feel haughty at the end of it all.

 

[nismaratwork]

Turning statements into questions can help make it seem like you aren't such an ***. I do it a lot. It also has a few good side effects, like making the person you're talking to think that you think they are intelligent(which they will enjoy, if they have respect/envy/etc. for you.) and it makes it seem like you are willing to defer, if need be(which can prevent harsh contradictions/disagreements).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

It's a good thing when not used as an evasion, but as a genuine teaching tool.

 

[leroyjenkens]

In seriousness, I found (thankfully not too late in life) that people dislike those who try to tell everyone how smart they are.

Not to mention the people who always have to tell people how smart they are, usually aren't that smart. If you're smart, you don't have to tell anyone, they'll already know.

Turning statements into questions can help make it seem like you aren't such an ***.

I do that sometimes when I'm correcting someone. Or I'll start the statement with "Actually, I think". That serves two purposes; it softens to the blow to their ego and it saves me from embarrassment if I really am wrong.
Some people seem to have absolutely no sense of self-doubt when they respond with "Nope, you're wrong. This is the right answer." They believe so strongly that they're right that they're willing to risk embarrassment upon being proven wrong.
Although, I guess those people aren't affected by being proven wrong when they've responded so assuredly, which is why they keep doing it.
And some people will respond to you like you've just said the most ridiculous thing ever. "What?! No..."

 

[nismaratwork]

Not to mention the people who always have to tell people how smart they are, usually aren't that smart. If you're smart, you don't have to tell anyone, they'll already know.

I do that sometimes when I'm correcting someone. Or I'll start the statement with "Actually, I think". That serves two purposes; it softens to the blow to their ego and it saves me from embarrassment if I really am wrong.Some people seem to have absolutely no sense of self-doubt when they respond with "Nope, you're wrong. This is the right answer." They believe so strongly that they're right that they're willing to risk embarrassment upon being proven wrong.
Although, I guess those people aren't affected by being proven wrong when they've responded so assuredly, which is why they keep doing it.
And some people will respond to you like you've just said the most ridiculous thing ever. "What?! No..."

re bolding mine: That's becoming a lost art it seems, but it's the kind of teachers and professors who took that view that made learning a joy. I find those kind of people who consider the feelings of others naturally and instinctively are also much more pleasant to be around... and thus tend to succeed.

 

[nucleargirl]

haughty... what is there to be haughty about? you feel like you are superior to others because you do science? I think seeing the bigger picture would change your mind. there is no 'better' profession, none is superior to others as long as you are making a contribution to society. everyone does their part.
try to see the good about other people aside from the good parts in yourself.
it really shouldn't be common amongst scientists. conceited scientists... they're the worst. you're no genius, and if you are, help others to become better.

 

[DanP]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

One day, somebody will break your face for it. You'll learn how to restrain within the next 12h. You will suddenly discover flexibility.
Everybody does. There is hope for all of us. .

 

[Lacy33]

One day, somebody will break your face for it. You'll learn how to restrain within the next 12h. You will suddenly discover flexibility.
Everybody does. There is hope for all of us. .

LOL
Check out my history. How arrogant do you think i was?

 

[Lacy33]

One day, somebody will break your face for it. You'll learn how to restrain within the next 12h. You will suddenly discover flexibility.
Everybody does. There is hope for all of us. .

I'm so sorry

 

[JDStupi]

The other option is to use that intellect you so pride yourself in having in order to cut to the core of yourself. Why is it "inherent" in your personality? What does it say about you as an individual that you constantly have to compare yourself to others and view yourself as superior in some fashion? What does it say about humans as a whole that we operate on a basis of social comparison, and how can you escape such a cycle?
Examine your value system. The haughtiness arises from a feeling of being "better" or "superior". Well, what is that but a value judgement? And what is it that justifies a value judgement? What makes the possession of an intellect something "superior"? And who is the judge? Moreover, how does the feeling of contempt manifest itself when you find yourself on the lower end of the totem pole?
When you sit somewhere and hear people's conversations and, invariably, the conversation comes back to the person speaking, when they say some fact about themselves that seemingly has no purpose other than to compare notes in the social card game. Ask yourself if you do that, and why? Use other people as a mirror for yourself and you may find that you're not so different as you think. You may not transcend the cycle you disdain, and may just be at another tier within it.
Humbling yourself by the accomplishments of others is good, though this may not kill the mindset at its core.
We are all wrestling with our "egos" in some form or another, whether we're conscious of it or not.

 

[Drakkith]

Hrmm. What's it called when you get irritated at people who don't know what they are talking about for no good reason? And then argue with you when you try to explain it to them. Which then irritates you more.

 

[chiro]

Hrmm. What's it called when you get irritated at people who don't know what they are talking about for no good reason? And then argue with you when you try to explain it to them. Which then irritates you more.

Blissful Ignorance?

 

[Math Is Hard]

This might be common amongst natural scientists but I cannot refrain my haughtiness. I think this is my inherent personality. I know it is wrong and I better change my personality but how to?

I read your other posts and noticed that you are a high school student. My own observation is that high school students rarely do things to be haughty about, but when they do, they are usually very humble. They say things like, "I just saw this problem and I had this idea for solving it."

 

[Chi Meson]

Hrmm. What's it called when you get irritated at people who don't know what they are talking about for no good reason? And then argue with you when you try to explain it to them. Which then irritates you more.

It's called politics.

 

[l-1j-cho]

I don't tell people that I am smart, but I think my behaviour implies that I am smart. For instance, I never take notes in physics or mathematics class and I never do homework, but still I get satisfactory accomplishment (above 90%). Actually, if others ask me if I am smart, I usually smile or try to change the subject, or simply say 'thank you'. But I think, from my behaviour, I think I want to be recoginzed by others as a genius, where I hardly don;t think I am

 

[cobalt124]

It's called politics.

When you can't get a politician to admit they were wrong, and the best you can extract from them is "they got the presentation wrong".

 

[nismaratwork]

I don't tell people that I am smart, but I think my behaviour implies that I am smart. For instance, I never take notes in physics or mathematics class and I never do homework, but still I get satisfactory accomplishment (above 90%). Actually, if others ask me if I am smart, I usually smile or try to change the subject, or simply say 'thank you'. But I think, from my behaviour, I think I want to be recoginzed by others as a genius, where I hardly don;t think I am

Well, we agree then! I believe what you need is to find genuine confidence so that you avoid Illusory Superiority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

 

[l-1j-cho]

Thank you guys for the advices. Haughtiness is worse than ignorance.

 

[nismaratwork]

Thank you guys for the advices. Haughtiness is worse than ignorance.

No, it isn't; ignorance is next only to cruelty.

 

[nucleargirl]

haughtiness is ignorance. ignorance of others.

 

[nismaratwork]

haughtiness is ignorance. ignorance of others.

Good point; I'd add that it's ignorance of the self. People who know their worth, good, bad, or ugly, don't need to display like a peacock, and have mastery over their behaviour for the most part.

 

[Loren Booda]

I believe that haughtiness involves judgment of others.

 

[Lacy33]

I don't tell people that I am smart, but I think my behaviour implies that I am smart. For instance, I never take notes in physics or mathematics class and I never do homework, but still I get satisfactory accomplishment (above 90%). Actually, if others ask me if I am smart, I usually smile or try to change the subject, or simply say 'thank you'. But I think, from my behaviour, I think I want to be recoginzed by others as a genius, where I hardly don;t think I am

Sounds like you are more smart like a machine. I think a "genius" is something else that invloves creativity.
A lot of people have minds like machines. But they have very little personality.

I'm thinking a lot of people here on PF who have minds like a machine but they are funny, poke fun at themselves and others and play a lot.
One of my teachers told me long ago that "the romantic days of the single genius are over." Now people are working together. Try and think of yourself as a team member.
This professor told me this when research papers were still coming out with one or two authors. He didn't live to see 50-100 authors on a paper.
Sure your special. You are given a change to play/work in math and physics. But don't get high off it.
Arrogant people are such a turn off. People won't like you. You will be over looked and replaced...

 

[nismaratwork]

Sounds like you are more smart like a machine. I think a "genius" is something else that invloves creativity.
A lot of people have minds like machines. But they have very little personality.

I'm thinking a lot of people here on PF who have minds like a machine but they are funny, poke fun at themselves and others and play a lot.
One of my teachers told me long ago that "the romantic days of the single genius are over." Now people are working together. Try and think of yourself as a team member.
This professor told me this when research papers were still coming out with one or two authors. He didn't live to see 50-100 authors on a paper.
Sure your special. You are given a change to play/work in math and physics. But don't get high off it.
Arrogant people are such a turn off. People won't like you. You will be over looked and replaced...

Amen!

 

[elfboy]

Sounds like you are more smart like a machine. I think a "genius" is something else that invloves creativity.
A lot of people have minds like machines. But they have very little personality.

I'm thinking a lot of people here on PF who have minds like a machine but they are funny, poke fun at themselves and others and play a lot.
One of my teachers told me long ago that "the romantic days of the single genius are over." Now people are working together. Try and think of yourself as a team member.
This professor told me this when research papers were still coming out with one or two authors. He didn't live to see 50-100 authors on a paper.
Sure your special. You are given a change to play/work in math and physics. But don't get high off it.
Arrogant people are such a turn off. People won't like you. You will be over looked and replaced...

there no substitution for intelligence & skill though. if you want likable personalities go watch the morning news. Research is supposed to be objective and results orientated. You earn the right to be arrogant by being exceptional.

 

[disregardthat]

there no substitution for intelligence & skill though. if you want likable personalities go watch the morning news. Research is supposed to be objective and results orientated. You earn the right to be arrogant by being exceptional.

I don't think so at all. People naturally tends to socialize and interact (especially in academia) with people similar in thought and intelligence. It seems to be an automatic inclination in most people, conscious or not. Most often you have nothing at all to be arrogant about.

What will serve your best however in many ways is to be on the lookout for brilliance in others. You'll learn to appreciate other views, thoughts and suggestions, and it will earn you more than one long-lasting relationship. And not least this is how you actually will learn that arrogance really is ignorance.

 

[cobalt124]

there no substitution for intelligence & skill though. if you want likable personalities go watch the morning news. Research is supposed to be objective and results orientated. You earn the right to be arrogant by being exceptional.

I would never give anyone the right to be arrogant for any reason. IMO any organisation that does so a) has their priorities wrong, b) will cause more harm than good ultimately. Intelligence and skill are not everything and not always the most important thing to bring to bear on a situation, so there is a substiution for it in some circumstances. I'm assuming you are not implying that to be "objective and results orientated" you have to be arrogant, but it reads like that to me, and it is not the case. Too many times I have justified arrogance by calling it something virtuous, and have rightly suffered the consequences.

 

[Dembadon]

there no substitution for intelligence & skill though. if you want likable personalities go watch the morning news. Research is supposed to be objective and results orientated. You earn the right to be arrogant by being exceptional.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, which is what I believe Lacy is saying. It is quite possible to be highly intelligent and have a likable personality.

 

[DanP]

there no substitution for intelligence & skill though. if you want likable personalities go watch the morning news. Research is supposed to be objective and results orientated. You earn the right to be arrogant by being exceptional.

I hope you won't complain if someone will come one day and beat you and bully you into submission. After all, he earned this right just by being stronger than you.

 

[nismaratwork]

there no substitution for intelligence & skill though. if you want likable personalities go watch the morning news. Research is supposed to be objective and results orientated. You earn the right to be arrogant by being exceptional.

You never have a right to be arrogant; it is a fundamental character flaw usually born of insecurity or genuine inadequacy. Confidence and pride, sure, but arrogance no.

@DanP: Awww... you beat me to it.

 

[PhDorBust]

Modest men are not competent men. This is not to say that you triumph your successes at every turn, making unnatural jumps in conversation to present them, but rather to mention them casually at the appropriate moment and not suppress them.

 

[nismaratwork]

Modest men are not competent men. This is not to say that you triumph your successes at every turn, making unnatural jumps in conversation to present them, but rather to mention them casually at the appropriate moment and not suppress them.

Modesty has been shown to correlate with incompetance? I think that one needs more than your own very... unique... opinion to support it. You seem to be confusing modesty with being shy or retreating.