Why is the phase angle not just -90 degrees?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion addresses the calculation of the phase angle for a specific transfer function, highlighting that the phase is not simply -90 degrees. The correct phase expression is derived as -90 - tan^{-1}(\frac{\omega}{2 \zeta \omega_n}), due to the second quadrant nature of the denominator's phase. The participants clarify that the inverse tangent function only covers the first and fourth quadrants, necessitating adjustments to account for the actual angle. The conversation emphasizes the use of arctan2() in MATLAB for accurate phase calculations. Overall, the discussion provides insight into the complexities of phase angle determination in control systems.
Cyrus
Messages
3,237
Reaction score
17
Can someone show me how they got this:

\frac{\omega_n^2}{-\omega^2+j2 \zeta \omega_n \omega}

Has this phase:

-90-tan^{-1} \frac{ \omega}{2 \zeta \omega_n}

Why isn't it simply:

0 -tan^{-1} \frac{- 2 \zeta \omega_n}{ \omega}
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Hi Cyrus. Look at the denominator, it's phase is clearly a "second quadrant" angle. Inverse tan however only covers quadrands I and IV, so you want to express it as 180 - invtan(2 zeta omega_n / omega) right.

Now you're right to do what you did next, subtract the phase of the denom from the phase of the num to get :

-180 + invtan(2 zeta omega_n / omega).

Now just use invtan(x) = 90 - invtan(1/x) to get the desired expression.

BTW. Sorry that I'm too lazy to latex today, I hope you can follow it anyway.
 
Last edited:
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks uart!

Im so used to using arctan2() command in MATLAB that I forgot all this stuff.
 
Seemingly by some mathematical coincidence, a hexagon of sides 2,2,7,7, 11, and 11 can be inscribed in a circle of radius 7. The other day I saw a math problem on line, which they said came from a Polish Olympiad, where you compute the length x of the 3rd side which is the same as the radius, so that the sides of length 2,x, and 11 are inscribed on the arc of a semi-circle. The law of cosines applied twice gives the answer for x of exactly 7, but the arithmetic is so complex that the...
Thread 'Unit Circle Double Angle Derivations'
Here I made a terrible mistake of assuming this to be an equilateral triangle and set 2sinx=1 => x=pi/6. Although this did derive the double angle formulas it also led into a terrible mess trying to find all the combinations of sides. I must have been tired and just assumed 6x=180 and 2sinx=1. By that time, I was so mindset that I nearly scolded a person for even saying 90-x. I wonder if this is a case of biased observation that seeks to dis credit me like Jesus of Nazareth since in reality...
Fermat's Last Theorem has long been one of the most famous mathematical problems, and is now one of the most famous theorems. It simply states that the equation $$ a^n+b^n=c^n $$ has no solutions with positive integers if ##n>2.## It was named after Pierre de Fermat (1607-1665). The problem itself stems from the book Arithmetica by Diophantus of Alexandria. It gained popularity because Fermat noted in his copy "Cubum autem in duos cubos, aut quadratoquadratum in duos quadratoquadratos, et...
Back
Top