Physical law from experimental data

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between experimental data on time dilation and mass dilation, and the derivation of relativistic principles such as Lorentz invariance. Participants explore whether existing experimental data can be used to derive these principles or if additional experiments are necessary.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that high-quality experimental data relating proper time intervals to coordinate time intervals could be used to derive the time dilation formula through an intelligent computer program.
  • Another participant argues that this experimental data, along with the law of inertia and the uniformity of clock rates, can lead to the deduction of Lorentz invariance and other consequences of relativity.
  • A request for clarification on the law of inertia is made, specifically regarding its role in the derivation of relativistic principles.
  • A further explanation is provided that the law of inertia helps determine the appearance of world lines in inertial reference frames, leading to a mathematical relationship that supports Lorentz invariance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether existing experimental data is sufficient for deriving relativistic principles or if further experiments are required. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of additional experiments.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the applicability of the law of inertia and the dependence on specific experimental setups. The mathematical steps leading to the derivation of Lorentz invariance are also not fully resolved.

bernhard.rothenstein
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Consider that high quality experiments furnish data that relate proper time intervals to coordinate time intervals for different values of the relative velocity (life time dilationf moving mesons). An inteligent computer program could find out the best function of the relative speed which relates all the experimental results, i.e. the time dilation formula. Could we use it for further relativistic derivations or it is necessary to perform other experiments (light clock) in order to derive it?
We find a simillar situation in the case of the formula which accounts for the mass dilation (Bucherer's experiment).
 
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With that experimental data, together with the law of inertia and the uniformity of clock rates on any single world line, one can deduce Lorentz invariance, and all other consequences of relativity.
 
Last edited:
dx said:
With that experimental data, together with the law of inertia and the uniformity of clock rates on any single world line, one can deduce Lorentz invariance, and all other consequences of relativity.

Thanks. Please be more specific concerning the law of inertia. What does it introduce in the derivation?
 
The law of inertia is just to determine what world lines look like in inertial reference frames. If we send particles with different velocities in different directions, and then record the event where their measure a time 1, we get the hyperbola. In light-signal coordinates, this hyperbola is [tex]\tau_1 \tau_2 = 1[/tex]. By a simple argument, we can deduce that the light-signal coordinates of an event [tex](\tau_1, \tau_2)[/tex] in a frame moving with velocity v relative to the original frame are

[tex]\tau_1 ' = \sqrt{\frac{1+v}{1-v}} \tau_1[/tex]
[tex]\tau_2 ' = \sqrt{\frac{1-v}{1+v}} \tau_2[/tex]

Thus we get lorentz invariance: [tex]\tau_1 \tau_2 = \tau_1 ' \tau_2 '[/tex].
 

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