Physics: Calculate Emf, Electric Field in Magnetic Field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating electromotive force (emf) and electric fields in the context of a falling metal rod in a magnetic field, as well as the behavior of a loop of wire in a changing magnetic field. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical relationships, and the application of relevant laws such as Faraday's law and Lenz's law.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express uncertainty about how to determine the emf without knowing the magnetic field strength in the scenario of the falling rod.
  • There is a suggestion that if there is no current in the bar and no change in magnetic flux, there would be no emf generated.
  • Others argue that the rod must have a current since it is falling at a constant velocity, implying a balance of forces, including gravitational force and magnetic force.
  • One participant mentions that the magnetic force can be expressed as \(iLB\), where \(i\) is the current, \(L\) is the length of the bar, and \(B\) is the magnetic field strength, and relates this to the gravitational force acting on the rod.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between potential difference and emf, particularly in the context of a wire with no resistance.
  • Participants also discuss the calculation of the curl of the magnetic and electric fields, with some questioning the omission of units in their expressions.
  • One participant references Lenz's Law, suggesting that a changing magnetic flux would induce a force opposing that change, which is relevant to the scenario of the falling rod.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the calculation of emf or the conditions under which it is generated. There are competing views regarding the necessity of current and changing flux for emf to exist, as well as differing interpretations of the implications of Lenz's Law.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding due to missing information, such as the strength of the magnetic field. There are also unresolved mathematical steps regarding the calculation of electric fields and the interpretation of units in their equations.

Fermat1
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1)A meter long metal rod of mass m is falling with a constant velocity of 10 m/s. The rod is attached to two conducting rails. Determine the emf if there is a uniform magnetic field directed perpendicular to the motion of the bar. The resistance has a value of 105 ohms.

I don't know how I can do it when the magnetic field is not given

2)A loop of wire is put in a changing magnetic field. The magnetic flux through the loop is given by $4t(t+2)$. The loop is connected to a parallel plate capacitor that has a plate separation of 15mm. Determine the electic field between the plates at time $t=3$ s.

Can I assume that potential difference equal emf if the wire has no resistance?

3)Let $V=(xyt^3T)i+(x^4tT)j$. Find the curl of the magnetic field and the electric field. I've found the curl.
The curl I found to be $-(4x^3t)j+(yt^3)k$ It's sensible to leave out the units T right?

How do I find the electric field?
 
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Fermat said:
1)A meter long metal rod of mass m is falling with a constant velocity of 10 m/s. The rod is attached to two conducting rails. Determine the emf if there is a uniform magnetic field directed perpendicular to the motion of the bar. The resistance has a value of 105 ohms.

I don't know how I can do it when the magnetic field is not given

It seems to me that if there is no current in the bar, and if there is not change in flux, there won't be an emf.
2)A loop of wire is put in a changing magnetic field. The magnetic flux through the loop is given by $4t(t+2)$. The loop is connected to a parallel plate capacitor that has a plate separation of 15mm. Determine the electic field between the plates at time $t=3$ s.

Can I assume that potential difference equal emf if the wire has no resistance?

That is what I would assume with no more information given.
3)Let $V=(xyt^3T)i+(x^4tT)j$. Find the curl of the magnetic field and the electric field. I've found the curl.
The curl I found to be $-(4x^3t)j+(yt^3)k$ It's sensible to leave out the units T right?

How do I find the electric field?

Since the formula for $V$ contains the unit T, it makes sense to also specify it in an answer. Anyway, since it is an SI unit, it won't hurt much to leave it out.

How did you find the curl of the magnetic field?

And what is being asked exactly? The electric field? Or the curl of the electric field?
 
Fermat said:
1)A meter long metal rod of mass m is falling with a constant velocity of 10 m/s. The rod is attached to two conducting rails. Determine the emf if there is a uniform magnetic field directed perpendicular to the motion of the bar. The resistance has a value of 105 ohms.

I don't know how I can do it when the magnetic field is not given
Lenz's Law says that if the flux through the loop is changing then there will be a force to counteract the changing flux. In this case we know that the rod is falling with a constant speed...that is to say that there must be a force on the rod, equal to the weight of the rod, in the upward direction. What does that tell you about the magnetic field?

-Dan
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I like Serena said:
It seems to me that if there is no current in the bar, and if there is not change in flux, there won't be an emf.

There is a current in the bar-otherwise the bar will accelerate as it falls.
The magnetic force is given by [math]iL \times B[/math], where i is current, L is the bar's length, and B is the magnetic field. The magnetic field is perpendicular to the motion, so the magnitude, [math] iLB \sin \theta [/math], becomes [math]iLB[/math], and the direction, by the right-hand rule, is opposite to the direction of the gravitational force. Since the bar falls with constant velocity, this force is equal in magnitude to the gravitational force. Thus [math] iLB=mg[/math].
But [math] i= \frac{\epsilon}{R} [/math], where [math]\epsilon[/math] is emf. So, Fermat, what do you think you should do now?
Faraday's law, maybe?
 

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