Preaching Politics from the Pulpit

[phyzmatix]

Not at all. As the IRS clearly states

Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena. The IRS also has provided guidance regarding the difference between advocating for a candidate and advocating for legislation.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=161131,00.html

If you continue reading it says:

The IRS also has provided guidance regarding the difference between advocating for a candidate and advocating for legislation. See political and lobbying activities.

Which leads to (once you "see" political and lobbying activities)

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

and in case you wish to nit-pick about the part that says "on behalf of the organization" then I refer you again to

Individual Activity by Organization Leaders
The political campaign intervention prohibition is not intended to restrict
free expression on political matters by leaders of organizations speaking for
themselves, as individuals. Nor are leaders prohibited from speaking about
important issues of public policy. However, for their organizations to remain tax
exempt under section 501(c)(3), leaders cannot make partisan comments in
official organization publications or at official functions of the organization.

So, unless you can provide me with a definition for what the IRS calls

a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena

that will show that Pfleger's actions as noted in the OP do not constitute a breach of the above-mentioned prohibitions, I think we are done with this particular line of debate.

 

[Art]

This is saying what we've been saying.

We're saying that churches can neither endorse or campaign for or against a candidate. Which is stated in what you posted above.

What you posted says only that churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena

Evo this is what you said in your OP

I absolutely have a problem when they overstep their bounds and start preaching politics. I personally believe that this should not be allowed at all.

You are now redefining your argument and channelling it into a far narrower compass which is fine but please do not try to claim this is what you said all along.

 

[Art]

that will show that Pfleger's actions as noted in the OP do not constitute a breach of the above-mentioned prohibitions, I think we are done with this particular line of debate.

Nice strawman. I never made any mention of Pfleger's action. My bone was with the statement religion and politics are totally separate.

Now if you would like to begin a discussion on Pfleger specifically then from my understanding of the IRS rules, providing he wasn't claiming to speak on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church or making his speeches from their pulpits then in his capacity as a private citizen he is legally entitled to say whatever he wants so although Obama's church may be in breach of IRS regulations for inviting him to speak in their church Pfleger himself isn't.

 

[Secretblend]

I have just scanned through this thread quickly. I do want to say one thing.

A true church would have no thoughts of politics. Church is for a person's soul and where that soul will end up at end of time. Church has nothing to do with all aspects of life other than guiding one person to do what is right in God's eyes. If have faith in God, things will happen as God allows things to happen and we just deal with the things that happens rather is for good or for bad and to have faith in God that He is bringing or allowing things to happen that will fullfill His will. With that said, no preacher should be concerned with what is going on on the political side. He/She should only be concerned with his fellow brothers and sisters soul at end of time.

If the poeple have true desires of what God wants, their morals and their thoughts of all aspect of life other than church will guide them to do what is right to the best of their abilities and everything else will fall into place.

That is how I see how people involved in church should behave in all areas including preaching at the pulpit.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I have just scanned through this thread quickly. I do want to say one thing.

A true church would have no thoughts of politics. Church is for a person's soul and where that soul will end up at end of time. Church has nothing to do with all aspects of life other than guiding one person to do what is right in God's eyes. If have faith in God, things will happen as God allows things to happen and we just deal with the things that happens rather is for good or for bad and to have faith in God that He is bringing or allowing things to happen that will fullfill His will. With that said, no preacher should be concerned with what is going on on the political side. He/She should only be concerned with his fellow brothers and sisters soul at end of time.

If the poeple have true desires of what God wants, their morals and their thoughts of all aspect of life other than church will guide them to do what is right to the best of their abilities and everything else will fall into place.

That is how I see how people involved in church should behave in all areas including preaching at the pulpit.

What church isn't involved in politics?

 

[Secretblend]

What church isn't involved in politics?

The one I grew up on wasn't involved. Some members may have been involved in their personal life however we didn't discuss politics as mentioned in this thread. We might have spoke of what was going on as everybody does but we didn't speak of it as in decision making way.

However, politics were never spoken about at the pulpit. Only topic involving the Bible and what the Bible speaks about.

 

[phyzmatix]

Now if you would like to begin a discussion on Pfleger specifically then from my understanding of the IRS rules, providing he wasn't claiming to speak on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church or making his speeches from their pulpits then in his capacity as a private citizen he is legally entitled to say whatever he wants so although Obama's church may be in breach of IRS regulations for inviting him to speak in their church Pfleger himself isn't.

From what you are saying, I guess then that we agree on the following:

1. There is nothing legally prohibiting religious institutions from preaching politics but said organisation(s) may lose its tax-exempt status should it choose to do so.
2. Preachers, ministers, etc have the right to their own opinions and freedom of speech but they may endanger the tax-exempt status of their organisation if they voice said opinions from the pulpit.

Since we've been debating the legalities and recognition of the tax-exempt status of religious organisations and (I think) reached an agreement, let's then get back to what Evo asked in the OP

This isn't about Obama. It's about the flagrant abuse of authority of preachers preaching politics to their followers. People that go to church are pretty much taught since a small child that a member of the clergy is always to be trusted, if you have a problem, are in trouble, in need of direction, you should talk to your pastor, priest, rabbi, etc... These people have captive audiences that will believe to some degree everything they say.

I have nothing against a religious figure talking about religion. I absolutely have a problem when they overstep their bounds and start preaching politics. I personally believe that this should not be allowed at all.

How do you feel about preachers preaching politics?

We've all stated how we feel and since feelings can't be further substantiated by either law or scientific fact, does that then mean this thread has run its course and we should just agree to disagree?

(Where I'd love to continue, I don't want to suddenly find myself in violation of the Forum Guidelines)

 

[Evo]

Great job phyzmatics for finding the information. So the church Obama attends could lose their tax exempt status.

And yes, thread closed.

 

[Astronuc]

Obama has resigned from Trinity Church.

As Evo and Art here at PF predicted, Obama has resigned from Trinity Church.

Obama resigns from controversial church