Projectile Motion Particle Problem

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around a complex projectile motion problem involving the separation of fast and slow-moving ions in a device designed to sample atmospheric pollution. The user is confused about the problem's wording, particularly regarding whether the ions should be separated vertically or horizontally and how to interpret the distances involved. Calculations for the required accelerations of the ions have been made, but the user is uncertain about how to apply these results after the ions exit the gap between the plates. Clarification was provided that the goal is to ensure the ions reach the detector without hitting the plates, which involves understanding their trajectory post-acceleration. The conversation highlights the intricacies of projectile motion and the importance of clear problem statements in physics.
moonbase
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Hello, I have a confusing problem here that I've spent a long time on today and can't seem to understand. I've found this on contextual problem websites so it's possible that one of you may have seen it before.

Also, ignore the graph I attached, I messed it up but it might give you an idea of how it's set up.

The scenario:
You have a summer job as an assistant in a university research group that is designing a devise to sample atmospheric pollution. In this device, it is useful to separate fast moving ions from slow moving ones. To do this the ions are brought into the device in a narrow beam so that all of the ions are going in the same direction. The ion beam then passes between two parallel metal plates. Each plate is 5.0 cm long, 4.0 cm wide and the two plates are separated by 3.0 cm. A high voltage is applied to the plates causing the ions between them to have a constant acceleration directly toward one of the plates and away from the other plate. Before the ions enter the gap between the plates, they are no longer accelerated during the 50 cm journey to the ion detector. Your boss asks you to calculate the magnitude of acceleration between the plates necessary to separate ions with a velocity of 100 m/s from those in the beam going 1000 m/s by 2.0 cm?

My take on it:
Either this problem is very poorly worded or I'm just not making sense of it. It is asking to find the acceleration needed to separate the ions by 2.0 cm, but I'm not sure if it's asking to separate them vertically or horizontally. Vertically wouldn't make sense because the ions start at the center of the 3.0 cm gap, leaving 1.5 cm for the streams to move (they can't move apart, must go in the same direction if I'm not mistaken), thus they could never become 2.0 cm apart vertically. However, horizontally separating them would not make sense either because the distance between them constantly changes and their horizontal velocity shouldn't change if the acceleration is going perpendicular to the streams' path ("acceleration directly toward one of the plates"). Also, I can't separate them by 2.0 cm in the z-axis because they are moving toward the plates, not apart from each other within the space between the plates. Sorry if what I said is confusing.

Sidenote: I'm also not sure whether the "50 cm journey" is the distance between the plates and the ion detector or the total distance covered. Another possible issue with this problem is whether the distance traveled through the plates is 4 cm or 5 cm depending on how they're positioned, but I'm assuming it's 5 cm.

Calculations:
So far I have time values for the period in which they're between the plates.

X-Components:

Slow Ions: xf=0.05 m, x0=0 m, v0=100 m/s, a=0 m/s2.
0.05=0+100t+0.5(0)t2, 100t=0.05, t=0.0005 sec

Fast Ions: xf=0.05 m, x0=0 m, v0=1000 m/s, a=0 m/s2.
0.05=0+1000t+0.5(0)t2, 1000t=5, t=0.00005 sec

Y-Components:

Slow Ions: yf=0.03 cm, y0=0.015 cm, v0=0 cm/s, t=0.0005 sec.
0.03=0.015+0(0.0005)+0.5a(0.0005)2, 0.000000125a=0.015, a=120000 m/s2

Fast Ions: yf=0.03 cm, y0=0.015 cm, v0=0 cm/s, t=0.00005 sec.
0.03=0.015+0(0.00005)+0.5a(0.00005)2, 0.00000000125a=0.015, a=120000000 m/s2

So I've apparently found the accelerations required to move the ions to the plate's surface by the time they leave the gap, but now I'm confused as to what I do with them because all they do from this point on is move toward the detector without the force acting on them. Can anyone help?
 

Attachments

  • Ions.jpg
    Ions.jpg
    6.5 KB · Views: 418
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Welcome to PF.
Your diagram is not what the boss is asking - sure some slow-moving ions will impact the plates like you show, but you want them to impact the detector. So you want the 100-1000m/s ions to leave the area between the plates without hitting the plates.

When they do they will be traveling at an angle to horizontal which depends on their speed. This translates into a vertical displacement by the time they hit the detector.
 
Ahhhh, I see. Thank you!
 
TL;DR Summary: I came across this question from a Sri Lankan A-level textbook. Question - An ice cube with a length of 10 cm is immersed in water at 0 °C. An observer observes the ice cube from the water, and it seems to be 7.75 cm long. If the refractive index of water is 4/3, find the height of the ice cube immersed in the water. I could not understand how the apparent height of the ice cube in the water depends on the height of the ice cube immersed in the water. Does anyone have an...
Thread 'Variable mass system : water sprayed into a moving container'
Starting with the mass considerations #m(t)# is mass of water #M_{c}# mass of container and #M(t)# mass of total system $$M(t) = M_{C} + m(t)$$ $$\Rightarrow \frac{dM(t)}{dt} = \frac{dm(t)}{dt}$$ $$P_i = Mv + u \, dm$$ $$P_f = (M + dm)(v + dv)$$ $$\Delta P = M \, dv + (v - u) \, dm$$ $$F = \frac{dP}{dt} = M \frac{dv}{dt} + (v - u) \frac{dm}{dt}$$ $$F = u \frac{dm}{dt} = \rho A u^2$$ from conservation of momentum , the cannon recoils with the same force which it applies. $$\quad \frac{dm}{dt}...
Back
Top