- #1
Rabbani
- 1
- 0
How can I prove to my 9 year old daughter that the moon is closer to Earth than the sun? At the moment, she has read it in books and this information has the same status as unicorns and fairy princesses!
Rabbani said:How can I prove to my 9 year old daughter that the moon is closer to Earth than the sun? At the moment, she has read it in books and this information has the same status as unicorns and fairy princesses!
I agree with Wabbit, a solar eclipse would be the best proof, you could show her a video of one or it would be even better to actually witness one.wabbit said:Great question. I agree with berkerman, eclipses would be the best proof, and even better if she can verify it by witnessing a partial solar eclipse and the associated lunar eclipse.
Another proof, a little harder to grasp but based on readily available evidence, is the phases of the moon : if the Sun was closer, the moon would be more or less always fully illuminated. Drawing some diagrams with relative positions and light rays, we can see that the succession of phases only happens when the moon is closer.
This can actually be extended to Aristarchus' calculation of the ratio of their distance (off by a factor 20 but only as a result of measurement imprecision), but this requires some geometry.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos
wabbit said:...
This can actually be extended to Aristarchus' calculation of the ratio of their distance (off by a factor 20 but only as a result of measurement imprecision), but this requires some geometry.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos
Why don't you start a new thread then?wabbit said:Maybe we should do a thread about elementary astronomy relying on naked eye observations following in the footsteps of the ancients. I don't know how much of that is taught in school (approximately none that I know of...), but it is a pity not every schoolkid can actually prove that the Earth is round, that the sun is farther than the moon, or understand phases of the moon and perhaps retrograde motion and so many other things that are accessible with basic geometry and concrete observations. And it even gives a reason to look up up at the stars : )
And when you look at the Almagest or the remnants of the Antikythera, it's obvious they made a lot of those observations and geometry.
In any case, @Rabbani, if you have more questions like this please come back, the wabbit for one loves them : )
Unless she's seen a solar eclipse herself, the tennis ball demonstration is just hearsay too. The other possible problem that not using an argument from authority* presents is that kids often have too much imagination and not enough logic to properly process such things. You can show her the demonstration, but that may not convince her that The Gods didn't just flip the sun over, exposing the dark side.wabbit said:I don't quite agree - we're told that we've gone to the moon, we saw it on TV - that's hearsay, or an argument of authority(*). A concrete demonstration like the tennis ball is quite something else, it allows her to really understand things, not just accept them.
I did this with my 5 year old and he got it.wabbit said:About the phases argument : I think this could be made concrete with just a light source and a ball in a darkened room - this might beat a drawing :)
I agree this is a good answer, though a tennis ball is easier to get hold of than than a laser ranging apparatus : )Chronos said:Se lunar laser ranging experiment for evidence man has been to the moon.
A 9 year old girl still doesn't trust NASA(or any other such organization) as much as you do. That's simply another thing she should learn. So what you say, can't be a proof for her. She should understand things herself now.russ_watters said:Define "proof". To me the fact that we've sent people to the moon and spacecraft near the sun is pretty good proof.
Those could have been placed there by an automated probe. Footprints on the otherhand...Chronos said:Se lunar laser ranging experiment for evidence man has been to the moon.
berkeman said:Welcome to the PF.
Explain the 2 types of eclipses to her, and show her pictures and animations. And find out when the next solar eclipse is -- Road Trip!
russ_watters said:Define "proof". To me the fact that we've sent people to the moon and spacecraft near the sun is pretty good proof.
Monsterboy said:how do you know whether they really went
No , because you can actually take her to Fresno, if needed you can take her to any other place in the world if you can afford it. If you start explaining the technical details of the Apollo missions and how they did land on the moon , you will probably overwhelm her.Vanadium 50 said:One could make the exact same argument about whether Fresno exists.
There are too many places on Earth to visit all of them. And booking a flight every time a question about a town comes up... even if you can afford it it does not sound practical. Sometimes it is more reasonable to trust evidence collected from others.Monsterboy said:No , because you can actually take her to Fresno, if needed you can take her to any other place in the world if you can afford it.
Yes , I just thought that telling a 9 year old that the fact that some people landed on the moon and some spacecraft s were sent to study the sun is the proof to show that moon is closer to the Earth than the sun, is not the most appropriate way to "prove " it, because she will have to blindly trust the "evidence" she may not understand yet and will lead to questions which will require you to prove that the moon landings did happen in the first place ,which will just complicate and prolong the proof for the original question. In #21 Shyan explained it well.mfb said:There are too many places on Earth to visit all of them. And booking a flight every time a question about a town comes up... even if you can afford it it does not sound practical. Sometimes it is more reasonable to trust evidence collected from others.
Monsterboy said:Yes , I just thought that telling a 9 year old that the fact that some people landed on the moon and some spacecraft s were sent to study the sun is the proof to show that moon is closer to the Earth than the sun, is not the most appropriate way to "prove " it, because she will have to blindly trust the "evidence" she may not understand yet and will lead to questions which will require you to prove that the moon landings did happen in the first place ,which will just complicate and prolong the proof for the original question. In #21 Shyan explained it well.
Scientists have used a variety of methods to determine the distance between the Earth and the moon, including radar measurements, laser ranging, and lunar missions. These methods have consistently shown that the moon is approximately 238,855 miles away from Earth, while the sun is approximately 93 million miles away.
In addition to the various methods mentioned above, there are several other pieces of evidence that support the moon being closer to Earth than the sun. For example, the gravitational pull of the moon on Earth's tides is much stronger than the sun's, indicating that the moon is closer. Additionally, during a solar eclipse, the moon appears to be the same size as the sun, which would not be possible if the sun was closer.
Yes, scientists have used lasers to accurately measure the distance between the Earth and the moon. This method involves sending a laser beam to a reflector on the moon's surface and measuring the time it takes for the beam to return. This has allowed scientists to determine the distance between the two bodies with a high degree of accuracy.
The distance between the Earth and the moon has a significant impact on our daily lives. The moon's gravitational pull affects the ocean tides, and it also plays a role in stabilizing Earth's rotation and tilt. Additionally, the moon's position relative to the Earth affects the length of our days and the timing of lunar phases.
No, the distance between the Earth and the moon is not constant. The moon is slowly moving away from the Earth at a rate of about 1.5 inches per year. This is due to tidal forces and the fact that the Earth's rotation is gradually slowing down. However, this change is so small that it will not have a significant impact on our daily lives or the moon's position in the sky.