Question about taking the difference between two square root expression

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of a specific equation from Ramakrishna's paper, focusing on the approximation method used for the difference between two square root expressions. Participants explore the mathematical steps involved, particularly the application of Taylor series expansion and the implications of certain terms in the equation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation derived in the paper and describes the Taylor series approximation used to simplify the difference of square roots.
  • Another participant reiterates the equation and explains the first-order Taylor approximation, noting the significance of small terms in the derivation.
  • A different participant questions the presence of the 1/4 term in the first square root, suggesting it may not belong and providing an alternative expression for the derivative.
  • This participant also discusses the implications of removing the 1/4 term on the zeroth order term and the resulting first-order term in the approximation.
  • One participant agrees that the 1/4 in the PDsat-B(B:2) term is a typo, indicating a potential error in the original equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the inclusion of the 1/4 term in the equation, with some suggesting it is a typo while others provide reasoning for its presence. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the original equation and the implications of the approximations made.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on specific assumptions regarding the Taylor series expansion and the interpretation of terms in the equation. There are unresolved questions about the mathematical steps and the implications of potential typos in the original paper.

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In Ramakrishna's paper, http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1111/1111.1922.pdf , he derived equation (9), page 5.

It is a difference of two square-roots using an approximation method. Can anyone help in how this is done?

Thanks
 
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Lets see - the equation would have been:

<br /> \frac{1}{c}\sqrt{<br /> H^2 + \frac{1}{4}\left ( <br /> \frac{D}{2}-v\Delta t<br /> \right )^2<br /> } - \frac{1}{c}\sqrt{<br /> H^2+\frac{D^2}{4}<br /> } \approx -\frac{1}{2}\frac{v \delta t}{c}\frac{D}{\sqrt{H^2 + \frac{D^2}{4}}}<br />

The text says this is "to first order in v\Delta t" ... which means he took the Taylor Series to first order, putting x=v\Delta t about x=0.

Taking the LHS for f(x), the 1st order Taylor approx is:

f(x) \approx f(0) + x{f^\prime}(0)

He just rewrote the delta-tee to emphasize it's small size.

I havn't actually crunched the numbers but it looks about the right shape - the deriverative gets you the -1/2 and pulls the vδt outside the root - putting the root itself in the denominator.
 
Simon Bridge said:
Lets see - the equation would have been:

<br /> \frac{1}{c}\sqrt{<br /> H^2 + \frac{1}{4}\left ( <br /> \frac{D}{2}-v\Delta t<br /> \right )^2<br /> } - \frac{1}{c}\sqrt{<br /> H^2+\frac{D^2}{4}<br /> } \approx -\frac{1}{2}\frac{v \delta t}{c}\frac{D}{\sqrt{H^2 + \frac{D^2}{4}}}<br />

The text says this is "to first order in v\Delta t" ... which means he took the Taylor Series to first order, putting x=v\Delta t about x=0.

Taking the LHS for f(x), the 1st order Taylor approx is:

f(x) \approx f(0) + x{f^\prime}(0)

He just rewrote the delta-tee to emphasize it's small size.

I havn't actually crunched the numbers but it looks about the right shape - the deriverative gets you the -1/2 and pulls the vδt outside the root - putting the root itself in the denominator.

Thanks, I appreciate.
 
I suspect that 1/4 in the first square root is not supposed to be there.
If you leave it off, then the zeroth order term vanishes at x=0 and

f^\prime (v\Delta t) = \frac{1}{c}\frac{1}{2}\left [ H^2 + \left ( \frac{D}{2} -v\Delta t \right )^2 \right ]^{-1/2} 2 \left ( \frac{D}{2} -v\Delta t \right ) (-1)

(Leaving it messy to show the working.) So the first order term, (v\delta t) f^\prime(0), comes out as shown.

Otherwise you end up with:

<br /> f(v\delta t) \approx <br /> <br /> \frac{1}{c}\sqrt{H^2 + \frac{1}{4}\frac{D^2}{4}} -<br /> \frac{1}{c}\sqrt{H^2 + \frac{D^2}{4}} -<br /> <br /> \frac{1}{8}\frac{v\delta t}{c}\frac{D}{\sqrt{H^2 + \frac{1}{4}\frac{D^2}{4}}}<br /> <br />

I have not found any reason for the division by 4 in the equation for PDsat-B(B:2) since it should just be the distance from B to the satellite (in position 2) by Pythagoras.
 
Indeed, the 1/4 in the PDsat-b(B:2) term is a typo error.

Thanks again
 

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