Reading off masses of eight goldstone bosons from chiral Lagrangian mass term

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the masses of eight pseudogoldstone bosons derived from the chiral Lagrangian mass term, specifically focusing on the implications of the mass terms for light quark flavors and how to interpret and diagonalize the resulting mass matrix.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mass term from the chiral Lagrangian and seeks to identify the masses of the pseudogoldstone bosons, questioning the presence of mixed terms like \((\pi^{+})\pi^{-}\).
  • Another participant suggests that the mass term for a complex field can be expressed in terms of a mass matrix, indicating that physical particles correspond to the eigenvalues of this matrix.
  • A participant expresses confusion about locating the mass matrix within the provided mass term and inquires about the process of diagonalization.
  • Further elaboration is provided on how to construct the mass matrix from the mass term, including specific coefficients for \(\eta\) and \(\pi^{0}\) terms.
  • One participant describes the process of diagonalizing the mass matrix and how to redefine fields to achieve a conventional mass Lagrangian form.
  • Another participant confirms the eigenvalues obtained from the mass matrix and relates them back to the masses of the \(\eta\) and \(\pi^{0}\) bosons, expressing gratitude for the assistance received.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to diagonalizing the mass matrix and interpreting the mass terms, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the specific details of the diagonalization process and the interpretation of mixed terms in the mass term.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps related to the diagonalization of the mass matrix and the interpretation of mixed mass terms, which may depend on specific assumptions about the fields involved.

LAHLH
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Hi,

If I have three light quark flavours with massses m_u, m_d,m_s, I want to try and calcuate the masses of the eight pseudogoldstone bosons.

I have found from my mass term in the Chiral L that:

L_{mass}=-2v^3 f_{\pi}^{-2}\left[(m_u+m_d)\pi^{+}\pi^{-}+(m_u+m_s)K^{+}K^{-}+(m_d+m_s)\bar{K}^{0}K^{0}+\tfrac{1}{2}m_u\left(\eta /\sqrt{3}+\pi^{0}\right)^2+\tfrac{1}{2}m_d\left(\eta/\sqrt{3}-\pi^{0}\right)^2+\tfrac{2}{3}m_s\eta^2\right]

which is all well and good and I was hoping to just read of the masses from this by looking for the form -1/2 m^2 \phi^2 and then just identifying m^2 for the various fields \pi^{+/-},\eta, K^{0},... etc

My text says m_{\pi^{\pm}}^2=2v^3 f_{\pi}^{-2}\left(m_u+m_d\right) but what does this mixed term of pi+,pi- mean? I was expecting \left(\pi^{+}\right)^2 terms to be present to give the \pi^{+} mass, not a mixture of +/-?

Even more confusing for me is that the text writes:

m^{2}_{\pi^{0},\eta}=\frac{4}{3} v^3 f_{\pi}^2\left[m_u+m_d+m_s \mp \left( m_u^2+m_d^2+m_s^2-m_sm_d-m_dm_s-m_sm_u\right)^{1/2}\right]

I have absolutely no clue how this \pi^{0}, or \eta mass is read off from the above, can anyone shed some light?
 
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I have not checked the maths, but:
- for a complex field the mass term is proportional to \phi^\dagger\phi, if expanded it in two hermitian fields it is \phi_1^2+\phi_2^2
- \eta and \pi_0 have a mass matrix in the Lagrangian you quoted, physical particles are eigenvalues of mass, try to diagonalize it...
 
Thanks a lot for the reply, I think what you say is definitely the way to get these results, but any chance you could say a fraction more? I'm just struggling to see exactly how and where the "mass matrix" is in my L_mass term. Do I just think of \pi^{0},\eta etc as being the indices of matrix, so maybe top leftmost is filled by coefficient of (\pi^{0})^2 from L_mass etc? and bottom rightmost is eta^2 coeff.

Then exactly how does one diagonalize this? sorry for all the questions..
 
For example I'm thinking if we focus on the eta, pi_0 piece we can rewrite this as:

\eta^2\left[m_u/6+m_d/6+2m_s/3\right]+(\pi^0)^2\left[m_u/2+m_d/2\right]+\eta\pi^0\left[m_u/2\sqrt{3}-m_d/2\sqrt{3}\right]+\pi^0\eta\left[m_u/2\sqrt{3}-m_d/2\sqrt{3}\right]

Then thinking of these as representing a matrix, we can write that matrix in the obvious way, i.e. \left[m_u/6+m_d/6+2m_s/3\right] in top left hand corner etc..

But then diagonalize this? what would be meant by the eigenvectors etc?
 
LAHLH said:
Thanks a lot for the reply, I think what you say is definitely the way to get these results, but any chance you could say a fraction more? I'm just struggling to see exactly how and where the "mass matrix" is in my L_mass term. Do I just think of \pi^{0},\eta etc as being the indices of matrix, so maybe top leftmost is filled by coefficient of (\pi^{0})^2 from L_mass etc? and bottom rightmost is eta^2 coeff.

Then exactly how does one diagonalize this? sorry for all the questions..

Yes, those are some of the coefficients of the mass matrix, to understand also the diagonal part try to expand this product:
\left(\begin{array}{ll} \pi^0 & \eta\end{array}\right)\left(\begin{array}{ll} m_1^2 & m_{12} \\ m_{12} & m_2^2\end{array}\right)\left(\begin{array}{l} \pi^0 \\ \eta\end{array}\right)

Then you can define new fields
\left(\begin{array}{l} \pi' \\ \eta'\end{array}\right)=O\left(\begin{array}{l} \pi^0 \\ \eta\end{array}\right)
to diagonalize that matrix without ruining the kinetic term
 
Last edited:
I see, so the \eta, (\pi^0) part of my mass Lagrangian is:


L_{mass}= -2v^3 f_{\pi}^{-2}\left[\eta^2\left[\frac{m_u}{6}+\frac{m_d}{6}+\frac{2m_s}{3}\right]+(\pi^0)^2\left[\frac{m_u}{2}+\frac{m_d}{2}\right]+\eta\pi^0\left[\frac{m_u}{2\sqrt{3}}-\frac{m_d}{2\sqrt{3}}\right]+\pi^0\eta\left[\frac{m_u}{2\sqrt{3}}-\frac{m_d}{2\sqrt{3}}\right]\right]

L_{mass}=\frac{-2v^3 f_{\pi}^{-2}}{6}\left(\begin{array}{ll} \eta & \pi^0\end{array}\right)\left(\begin{array}{ll}m_u+m_d+4m_s & \sqrt{3}(m_u-m_d) \\ \sqrt{3}(m_u-m_d) & 3(m_u+m_d)\end{array}\right)\left(\begin{array}{l} \eta \\ \pi^0\end{array}\right)

But now if we make a field redefinition with some linear operator S: \left(\begin{array}{l} \eta' \\ \pi'\end{array}\right)=S\left(\begin{array}{l} \eta^0 \\ \pi^0 \end{array}\right) then we can choose S to be the similarity transformation that diagonalises the above matrix M'=S^T M S and M'=diag(\lambda_{+},\lambda_{-}) and in terms of these new fields the mass Lagrangian will look more conventional. L_{mass}=\lambda_+ (\eta^{'})^2+\lambda_-(\pi^{0 '})^2 from which we can just read off the masses in the usual way.

So indeed, I found the eigenvalues of the above matrix and they came out to be:

\lambda_{+,-}=\frac{4}{6} v^3 f_{\pi}^2\left[m_u+m_d+m_s \mp \left( m_u^2+m_d^2+m_s^2-m_sm_d-m_dm_s-m_sm_u\right)^{1/2}\right]

meaning -\frac{1}{2}m_{\eta'}^2=\lambda_{+} which leads to m_{\eta'}^2=-2\lambda_{+} etc. So we might as well revert relabel back to old names \eta'\to\eta...

m_{\eta,\pi^{0}}^2=-\frac{4}{3} v^3 f_{\pi}^2\left[m_u+m_d+m_s \mp \left( m_u^2+m_d^2+m_s^2-m_sm_d-m_dm_s-m_sm_u\right)^{1/2}\right]

Thanks a lot for your help aesir.
 

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