Redshift of distant galaxies....

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    Galaxies Redshift
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the redshift of distant galaxies and what it indicates about their past and current recession velocities. Participants explore the implications of redshift in the context of the universe's expansion, considering both theoretical models and observational data.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that redshift indicates galaxies were receding faster in the past, suggesting a straightforward relationship between distance and recession velocity.
  • Others argue that the expansion of the universe has been accelerating, leading to a situation where some galaxies are receding faster now than they were when the light we observe was emitted.
  • A participant notes that the linear Hubble law applies only for small redshifts, indicating that the relationship between redshift and recession velocity is more complex than a simple linear model.
  • There is a suggestion that the observable universe grows faster than the scale factor, allowing us to see more distant objects over time.
  • Another viewpoint discusses the implications of a constant rate of expansion, where recession velocity is directly proportional to distance, but acknowledges that this may not reflect the actual behavior of the universe over the past few billion years.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of redshift and the nature of the universe's expansion. There is no consensus on whether the galaxies were uniformly receding faster in the past or if current recession velocities are greater due to acceleration.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the universe's expansion and the limitations of their models, including the dependence on specific definitions and assumptions about the nature of redshift and recession velocities.

Alistair Bingham
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...does it not simply indicate that the galaxies WERE receding faster IN THE PAST?
 
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Alistair Bingham said:
...does it not simply indicate that the galaxies WERE receding faster IN THE PAST?

Essentially, yes. What you would have is essentially the following data:

7 billion years ago objects that were 7 units away were receding at 7 units of speed
6 billion years ago objects that were 6 units away were receding at 6 units of speed
5 billion years ago objects that were 5 units away were receding at 5 units of speed.
...
2 billion years ago objects that were 2 units away were receding at 2 units of speed
1 billion years ago objects that were 1 unit away were receding at 1 unit of speed.

Let's say for the sake of argument we have no data more recent than this. And, leave aside all other corroborating data and theoretical explanations. And, with apologies to the cosmologists, as the data and the picture are obviously not quite as simple as this!

You might say: "aha, so the expansion of the universe might have stopped 1 billion years ago?!"

Well, it might. But, if you were to take your best guess what an object 1-7 units away is doing today, would you say: it's probably receding at some rate proportion to its distance?
 
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Alistair Bingham said:
...does it not simply indicate that the galaxies WERE receding faster IN THE PAST?

PeroK said:
Essentially, yes.

Careful. The expansion of the universe has been accelerating for the past few billion years, so there is a range of redshifts where the galaxies were receding slower when the light we see was emitted than they are now. The linear Hubble law only holds for small redshifts (i.e., much less than 1).

The simplest way of describing what the redshift indicates is that ##1 + z## (where ##z## is the redshift) is the factor by which the universe has expanded from the emission of the light to now. So a redshift of 1 means the universe has doubled in size from the emission of the light to now. (If the word "size" bothers you because our best current model has the universe being spatially infinite, substitute "observable universe" for "universe".)
 
PeterDonis said:
(If the word "size" bothers you because our best current model has the universe being spatially infinite, substitute "observable universe" for "universe".)
The observable universe grows faster than the scale factor, as light gets more time to reach us - we see more distant objects than we could see 5 billion years ago. "Size of the region that is today's observable universe" works.
 
Alistair Bingham said:
...does it not simply indicate that the galaxies WERE receding faster IN THE PAST?
Yes, but due to the way the universe has been expanding, many galaxies are receding even faster today than they were when the light we see left them.

To see how this works, consider a constant rate of expansion: this is the state our universe is currently approaching, as it is the expansion rate if all you have is a cosmological constant.

The rate of expansion gives the ratio of recession velocity to distance: twice the distance, twice the recession velocity. If the rate of expansion is a constant, then as the distance between two objects increases, so does their recession velocity relative to one another.

Of course, if the rate of expansion slows down rapidly enough, the recession velocity will also slow. But this hasn't been the case in our universe for a few billion years.
 

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