Redundant cross product removed from Maxwell equation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rationale for the removal of the cross product of velocity and magnetic field intensity from Maxwell's equations, specifically in the context of defining the electric field intensity. Participants explore historical interpretations and the evolution of these equations, touching on theoretical implications and the clarity of Maxwell's original formulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the potential already incorporates the changing value of the magnetic field, making the cross product redundant in Maxwell's equation.
  • Another participant clarifies the equation intended by Maxwell, noting the components involved in defining the electric field intensity.
  • A third participant references the Lorentz force equation, suggesting that Maxwell's original definitions differ from modern interpretations, particularly regarding the concept of charge and electromotive force.
  • One participant highlights that the cross product term is only necessary when a particle is moving in a magnetic field, indicating a potential alignment with modern equations under certain conditions.
  • Another participant expresses frustration with original papers due to outdated notation and the influence of historical paradigms on the authors' perspectives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of Maxwell's intentions and the implications of his equations. There is no consensus on the rationale for the changes made in the modern formulations of Maxwell's equations, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of Maxwell's original concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in understanding due to outdated notation and the historical context of Maxwell's work, which may affect the interpretation of his equations and concepts.

PhilDSP
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I'm trying to track down the rationale for removing the cross product of velocity and magnetic field intensity from Maxwell's equation which specifies the value of the electric field intensity. In the third edition of "A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism" Maxwell specifies (in modern terminology) that E = cross product of velocity and B minus the derivative with respect to time of the vector potential minus the gradiant of the scalar potential.

Was the assumption that the potential already contains the changing value of the magnetic field so that the cross product is redundant? It seems that Maxwell was second-guessed when Gibbs and Heaviside developed the modern variant of the equations.
 
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The equation intended by Maxwell is: E= v x B - dA/dt - \nabla \phi
 
I think you're referring to the Lorentz force equation, where q=1C:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force

If Wikipedia is to be believed, this paragraph addresses your concerns:
[PLAIN]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force said:
Although[/PLAIN] this equation is obviously a direct precursor of the modern Lorentz force equation, it actually differs in two respects:

It does not contain a factor of q, the charge. Maxwell didn't use the concept of charge. The definition of E used here by Maxwell is unclear. He uses the term electromotive force. He operated from Faraday's electro-tonic state A,[6] which he considered to be a momentum in his vortex sea. The closest term that we can trace to electric charge in Maxwell's papers is the density of free electricity, which appears to refer to the density of the aethereal medium of his molecular vortices and that gives rise to the momentum A. Maxwell believed that A was a fundamental quantity from which electromotive force can be derived.[7]
 
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Yes, that's exactly what I was referring to. Thanks for the reference.

Maxwell says that the v x B term is only needed when the particle is moving in a magnetic field. Otherwise the equation is the same as the modern equation for the E field defined with respect to the potentials I believe. Seems to be a mystery how to interpret what Maxwell was thinking and further study seems warranted.
 
This is a good reason why I don't bother reading original papers. Apart from the fact that their notation is outdated, the authors are often wedded to the the prevailing paradigms of their time, which may end up confusing the reader.
 

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