Relation between null and column space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between the null space and the column space of matrices, specifically whether the equality of null spaces of two matrices implies equality of their column spaces in reduced row echelon form, or vice versa. The context includes theoretical considerations and examples using specific matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether the null space and column space of matrices are related, specifically if $\operatorname{null}A=\operatorname{null}B$ implies $\operatorname{col}\operatorname{rref}A=\operatorname{col}\operatorname{rref}B$ or the other way around.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the definitions of $\operatorname{col}$ and $\operatorname{null}$, with questions about whether $\operatorname{col}$ refers to the column space or the rank of the column space, and whether $\operatorname{null}$ refers to the null matrix or the kernel.
  • One participant suggests examining specific matrices to analyze their null spaces and reduced row echelon forms to gain insight into the relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions of terms and the implications of the relationships between the null and column spaces, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of definitions for $\operatorname{col}$ and $\operatorname{null}$, which may affect the understanding of the relationships being discussed.

Dethrone
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Is there a relationship between 1 and 2. If so, is it 1 implies 2, 2 implies 1, or if and only if.
1) $\operatorname{null}A=\operatorname{null}B$
2) $\operatorname{col}\operatorname{rref}A=\operatorname{col}\operatorname{rref }B$
 
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Rido12 said:
Is there a relationship between 1 and 2. If so, is it 1 implies 2, 2 implies 1, or if and only if.
1) $\operatorname{null}A=\operatorname{null}B$
2) $\operatorname{col}\operatorname{rref}A=\operatorname{col}\operatorname{rref }B$

Hey Rido! ;)

Nice operatornames! (Mmm)

Actually, I'm not quite clear on what $\operatorname{col}$ is supposed to mean.
It it the column space? Or the rank of the column space?
Can you clarify?

And what about $\operatorname{null}$? Is it whether the matrix is a null matrix, or is it the kernel $\operatorname{ker}$? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Hey Rido! ;)

Nice operatornames! (Mmm)

Actually, I'm not quite clear on what $\operatorname{col}$ is supposed to mean.
It it the column space? Or the rank of the column space?
Can you clarify?

And what about $\operatorname{null}$? Is it whether the matrix is a null matrix, or is it the kernel $\operatorname{ker}$? (Wondering)
$\DeclareMathOperator{\adj}{adj}$
$\DeclareMathOperator{\null}{null}$
$\DeclareMathOperator{\col}{col}$

Hi ILS! :D

$\col A$ represents the column space of $A$, so in this case, it is the column space of the row reduced form of $A$. The matrix is the null matrix.
 
Let's pick a couple of simple matrices. (Thinking)

Say $A=(^{2\ 0}_{0\ 0})$ and $B=(^{0\ 3}_{0\ 0})$.

What are $\operatorname{null} A$ and $\operatorname{null} B$?
And $\operatorname{rref} A, \operatorname{rref} B$?
And $\operatorname{col} \operatorname{rref} A, \operatorname{col} \operatorname{rref} B$?

Do they give you a clue? (Wondering)
 

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