I Resonant frequencies of a membrane, dependance on Young's modulus?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the natural frequencies of circular membranes and their dependence on tension, density, thickness, and material properties like Young's modulus. It raises questions about how software for FEM modal analysis calculates tension when only geometry and material properties are specified. The relationship between Young's modulus and pretension is explored, highlighting that while FEM results show frequency dependence on Young's modulus, traditional equations do not account for it. Clarification is sought on the physical meaning of tension in this context, specifically how it relates to tensile stress and thickness. Understanding these relationships is crucial for accurately determining natural frequencies in practical applications like eardrums and microphones.
kravky
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Hello,

natural frequencies of (circular) membrane are expressed in every textbook as:

1.JPG


where
4.JPG
is the m-th positive root of the Bessel Function of the first kind of order n. For m=1, n=0: ξmn = 2,405.
2.JPG
represents the radius of membrane, and
3.JPG
is the velocity of wave propagation (transverse).

in every book there is an equation for velocity as follows:
5.JPG
where
7.JPG
is the density of membrane,
8.JPG
represents the thickness of the membrane and
6.JPG
is tension: force per unit length - dimension is therefore Newtons per meter.

I want to focus on the Tension. From the equations we can see, that the natural freq. depends on tension which makes sense. However how can i know the tension of the membrane? e.g tension of the ear drum, or tension of the membrane in microphone..

When we run FEM modal analysis in some program, we need only specify the geometry (radius) and material properties, such as Youngs modulus E, poissonous ratio and the density, and the program succesfully finds the natural modes of a membrane (e.g. clamped membrane). So my question is: How the program knows the tension? How can the software calculate the frequencies and mode shapes?

Is there a possibility to express natural freq. of membrane in terms of Youngs modulus, poissonous ratio, density, thickness, radius INDEPENDENTLY ON THE PRESTRESS (PRETENSION) ?

How Youngs modulus depends on the pretension? is there any relationship behind it?

Because in FEM we can see clear eveidence, that natural freq. does depend on the Youngs modulus E. However the equation in books does not contain Youngs modulus. It means that something is worng ?
Imagine we set in FEM simulation some pretension and we choose a value for Youngs modolus and so on... If we change the Youngs modulus the natural freq. will change however the equation says it will not change :-D

I don't understand physics behind this finding of natural freq. Maybe i don't understand what this tension means.

If You could help me, i would appreciate it greatly.
 

Attachments

  • 1.JPG
    1.JPG
    3.4 KB · Views: 806
  • 4.JPG
    4.JPG
    1.2 KB · Views: 764
  • 2.JPG
    2.JPG
    621 bytes · Views: 696
  • 3.JPG
    3.JPG
    612 bytes · Views: 628
  • 5.JPG
    5.JPG
    2.9 KB · Views: 588
  • 7.JPG
    7.JPG
    735 bytes · Views: 608
  • 8.JPG
    8.JPG
    646 bytes · Views: 628
  • 6.JPG
    6.JPG
    661 bytes · Views: 623
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
From your equation, what are the units of T?
 
The units of T are [N/m]. It means it is a force per unit length (Newtons/metres). unit of h is meter [m] and the units of rho are [kg/m^3].
 
kravky said:
The units of T are [N/m]. It means it is a force per unit length (Newtons/metres). unit of h is meter [m] and the units of rho are [kg/m^3].
This is correct. So the physical interpretation of T is tensile stress times thickness, or force per unit length along any segment of cut within the plane of the membrane. Along the rim of the membrane, T is the tensile force per unit length around the circumference.
 
Thread 'Gauss' law seems to imply instantaneous electric field'
Imagine a charged sphere at the origin connected through an open switch to a vertical grounded wire. We wish to find an expression for the horizontal component of the electric field at a distance ##\mathbf{r}## from the sphere as it discharges. By using the Lorenz gauge condition: $$\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A} + \frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial t}=0\tag{1}$$ we find the following retarded solutions to the Maxwell equations If we assume that...
Maxwell’s equations imply the following wave equation for the electric field $$\nabla^2\mathbf{E}-\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\mathbf{E}}{\partial t^2} = \frac{1}{\varepsilon_0}\nabla\rho+\mu_0\frac{\partial\mathbf J}{\partial t}.\tag{1}$$ I wonder if eqn.##(1)## can be split into the following transverse part $$\nabla^2\mathbf{E}_T-\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\mathbf{E}_T}{\partial t^2} = \mu_0\frac{\partial\mathbf{J}_T}{\partial t}\tag{2}$$ and longitudinal part...
Thread 'Recovering Hamilton's Equations from Poisson brackets'
The issue : Let me start by copying and pasting the relevant passage from the text, thanks to modern day methods of computing. The trouble is, in equation (4.79), it completely ignores the partial derivative of ##q_i## with respect to time, i.e. it puts ##\partial q_i/\partial t=0##. But ##q_i## is a dynamical variable of ##t##, or ##q_i(t)##. In the derivation of Hamilton's equations from the Hamiltonian, viz. ##H = p_i \dot q_i-L##, nowhere did we assume that ##\partial q_i/\partial...
Back
Top