Rotation vs Translation for elbow joint

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of rotation and translation as they apply to the motion of a beam (or board) pivoting at a hinge, specifically in the context of an elbow joint. Participants explore whether the motion can be classified as both rotational and translational when the string holding the beam is cut.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that when the string is cut, the beam will experience both rotation and translation due to the movement of its center of mass.
  • Others argue that the center of mass moving in a circular path can still be considered a form of translation, despite not being a straight line.
  • A later reply questions whether translation can be defined in this context, suggesting that translation does not require uniform movement in a single direction.
  • Some participants emphasize that to achieve only rotation, adjustments to the elbow joint's position would be necessary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the motion involves both rotation and translation, but there is some debate regarding the definitions and implications of translation in this scenario. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the strict classification of the motion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying interpretations of translation, dependence on the definitions of motion types, and the need for specific conditions to achieve pure rotation.

physics gal
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If I were to cut the string and let the board move, I know I would get rotation. But, since the center of mass of the beam is moving as well (in a circle) could I also say that the board is translating once the string is cut?
 
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Yes.
Assuming the beam is free to pivot about the hinge at its left end, it would both rotate and translate.
 
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.Scott said:
Yes.
Assuming the beam is free to pivot about the hinge at its left end, it would both rotate and translate.
So even though the beam will be tracing a large circle around the hinge (or more likely swinging back and forth) we can call this translation? My reasoning was because the center of mass of the board is moving as it swings. Is that correct?
 
.Scott said:
Yes.
Assuming the beam is free to pivot about the hinge at its left end, it would both rotate and translate.
The Centre of Mass of the board would drop and move to the left so that would be looked upon as translation. To avoid this, you would need to (appropriately) raise the elbow joint and move it to the right. Then you would have only rotation
 
sophiecentaur said:
The Centre of Mass of the board would drop and move to the left so that would be looked upon as translation. To avoid this, you would need to (appropriately) raise the elbow joint and move it to the right. Then you would have only rotation
Even though not all movement vectors of the object are moving in space by the same amount in a given direction, we can still call this translation?
 
physics gal said:
Even though not all movement vectors of the object are moving in space by the same amount in a given direction, we can still call this translation?
Why not? The translation doesn't need to be in a straight line or in a chosen direction. We are talking in terms of translation of the CM.
 
physics gal said:
If I were to cut the string and let the board move, I know I would get rotation. But, since the center of mass of the beam is moving as well (in a circle) could I also say that the board is translating once the string is cut?
Yes, you can decompose the same motion into rotation and translation in different ways.
 
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