Scribble pad along with normal posting

[Raghav Gupta]

Having a scribble pad ( like the one Khan Academy uses in videos) along with normal posting would make less time consumption for some of the users and work easy instead of writing latex for mathematical formulas. I think it would be new to PF as by my experience, FB not uses it.

I hope one responds about its views.

 

[jedishrfu]

Initially I thought that idea would be good too. The problem is that it isn't searchable and it can result in very sloppy writing and in some cases a handwritten post. While Latex is not as easy to use, it is searchable and it displays quite well and it's worth it to learn especially if you plan the write math papers for school.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Here what searchable means?
And I was saying that only for formulas we can use it and other things we can type along with it.
Well about sloppy writing , one can preview it.
What is your opinion?

 

[jedishrfu]

By searchable, I mean you could look for all posts that have a given math expression by entering the latex for it.

Sloppy writing usually never looks too sloppy to the writer and so even having a preview might not help.

Anyway, your idea is a good idea but may not be as suitable for as it is for Khan Academy.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Okay another good suggestion (I think ).
What about dynamic font? It is a web browser technology in which the calligraphy or hand written things are changed to forum's font.
You may have seen it?

 

[jedishrfu]

I've seen typography that looks like writing if that's what you mean. It very stylistic but might distract the reader. However, if its selectable by the poster then that would be cool.

Ultimately though this is not a custom built site where anything is possible. The primary web engine is Xenforo software and PF is a website which uses that software to bring you the PF forums. This means PF features are limited y what Xenforo supports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XenForo

Other posters may have some comments too.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

I've seen typography that looks like writing if that's what you mean. It very stylistic but might distract the reader. However, if its selectable by the poster then that would be cool.

I think you may have misunderstood or I think I may have misunderstood you, see below link.
You may know https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.visionobjects.calculator&hl=en.
In ios when we by touching with finger scribble number, it changes the number's appearance in client's fonts available e.g Times New Roman.

 

[jedishrfu]

Oh yes, I've seen that. It's pretty novel. One problem is it doesn't cover some of the more arcane math symbols like the del operator in vector calculus as I recall.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Yeah that calculator is not so advanced
but I only wanted to tell that how handwriting changes into font( like Times New Roman).
The calculation part we'll do in the specific forums.
Would that be possible considering the computer experts here in PF?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Well about sloppy writing , one can preview it.

Look at the sloppy writing that people use which uploading photographs of their work - it's so bad that PF has had to say "don't do that". And people can preview it here. They simply choose not to.

I think it's a bad idea to reduce effort by people asking for help by shifting it to the people providing it. Shouldn't we make it easier for people to provide help, rather than place the burden of figuring out the scribble on them?

 

[jtbell]

If there were software that could automatically recognize complex handwritten equations (including integrals, etc.) and convert them to LaTeX, like OCR software can recognize scanned text and convert it to ASCII or Unicode, that would be fantastic. Until that happens, we're going to have to stick with LaTeX for complex equations, or plain text with superscripts and subscripts for simple ones.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

I think it's a bad idea to reduce effort by people asking for help by shifting it to the people providing it. Shouldn't we make it easier for people to provide help, rather than place the burden of figuring out the scribble on them?

Yeah agree with you, jedishrfu was also trying to explain it to me and that made me think of another good suggestion from post 5 onwards.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

If there were software that could automatically recognize complex handwritten equations (including integrals, etc.) and convert them to LaTeX, like OCR software can recognize scanned text and convert it to ASCII or Unicode, that would be fantastic. Until that happens, we're going to have to stick with LaTeX for complex equations, or plain text with superscripts and subscripts for simple ones.

So MyScriptCalculator uses OCR , I see.
I have seen other apps like Google translate which uses HWR ( Handwriting recognition ), can't we like it use it on these forums?
I think computer experts here in PF can help in that.

 

[robphy]

Interesting...
http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html (also works on a smartphone)
http://webdemo.myscript.com/#/demo/equation

http://www.inftyreader.org/ ( http://www.inftyreader.org/?p=61 ) ( http://www.inftyreader.org/?p=193 )

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/use-math-input-panel-to-write-and-correct-math-equations (why not LaTeX output?) http://code.google.com/p/mip-helper/
http://www.inlage.com

http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~tapia/?page_id=269 (2004)

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Now the question is - Is it all possible in XenForo software?

 

[mfb]

(Nearly) everything is possible if you have a free team of developers and a few years of development time. We don't have that, and I doubt Greg wants to spend a lot of time working on a feature with unclear usefulness.

 

[Meesh]

I believe it would be interesting to add on the homework help section of the site. Maybe not other areas though so nobody has to freak out about it being searchable. I doubt someone will want to search by equation to find an unfinished problem someone is having trouble with.

Basically I think that it would be good given the guys higher up can take the picture out or ask the poster to make a neater one.

(For the scribble pad thing. )

 

[phinds]

Basically I think that it would be good given the guys higher up can take the picture out or ask the poster to make a neater one.

But once again, this shifts the burden to the people GIVING the help and that's not where it should be. If you are going to ask someone to do you the favor of helping you, the burden clearly should be on you to make it easy for them to help you. Putting any further burden on the mods would just be rude.

 

[Meesh]

this shifts the burden to the people GIVING the help

I disagree. My point was that it would be taken down if it is not neat, or the people giving the help can say "I can't help because your writing sucks". It would be easier given that the person asking for help or helping is neat with their writing, because it could be a burden for some people to try to type equations. I would say to only have the function to draw work if you have a tablet (no mouse because that is a recipe for disaster) in the same sense as OneNote defaulting to the draw function when you are using the tablet, but defaulting to typing when you don't have one. That way, there is a higher chance of neater writing.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

We've looked at using https://awwapp.com/ but in the end drawing anything of use without a stylus is very messy. Still up for debate though.

http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html is pretty interesting. We could easily make it a popup link in the editor.

 

[Meesh]

Wow the detextify thing works very well. I was unsure how something like that would work (the OneNote one isn't the best).

I do know it is possible to only have a draw function work when there is a tablet (stylus) connected.. Not sure how hard that is though.

(another thought would be to let it work for touch screen users.. some people are better with touch screens than you would think)

 

[Raghav Gupta]

http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html is pretty interesting. We could easily make it a popup link in the editor.

That would be great. People around here, what about your views?

 

[Meesh]

I think it would be a good idea in the homework section, maybe not so much anywhere else. I think it is good for equations and to draw useful diagrams that suit the equations or the homework.

 

[Raghav Gupta]

So Greg Sir, just curious,
How much time it would take for that link to be in editor?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

So Greg Sir, just curious,
How much time it would take for that link to be in editor?

Maybe a couple weeks if approved

 

[ellipsis]

What would be 500% simpler to actually implement and 200% more intuitive and helpful for users, new and old... would be a WYSIWYG LaTeX editor implemented in local javascript, and wrapped in a simple XenForo add-on.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

would be a WYSIWYG LaTeX editor implemented in local javascript, and wrapped in a simple XenForo add-on.

Great! Let me know when you have it finished :)

 

[Raghav Gupta]

Maybe a couple weeks if approved

It has been 2 weeks. Is any progress made?
Also @ellipsis, what about your progress?

 

[ellipsis]

It has been 2 weeks. Is any progress made?
Also @ellipsis, what about your progress?

No.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

It has been 2 weeks. Is any progress made?
Also @ellipsis, what about your progress?

I'm still not convinced there is a good solution yet.

 

[symbolipoint]

I'm still not convinced there is a good solution yet.

Drawing diagrams and labeling parts of them with symbols and expressions is a good thing to be able to provide. So far, this is an extra effort for those with a scanner and an account on image hosting site, but not a bad effort for accomplishing that much imagery help. (or upload image to Physicforums? ). One can use graphical tablet, imaging program, and not need to use a scanner. A picture could be saved that way and uploaded (either physicsforums or image host service). The capability is already available for those who have internet and either a scanner or graphical tablet. A system included onto physicsforums which would allow interactively handwriting and drawing something directly onto physicsforums would be a great feature.

 

[robphy]

Here's a fancier whiteboard that might be embeddable:
http://www.eduweaver.com/whiteboard.php

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Here's a fancier whiteboard that might be embeddable:
http://www.eduweaver.com/whiteboard.php

Looks like it's feature rich with an API. Only thing to test is if it all works with the free account. I'll look at it more in detail later today. Good find.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Test out the white board now available in the sidebar during thread create. Draw what you need and then save to disk and then upload as an attachment. btw, the test API allows for only 2 sessions at once. If this proves useful I'll consider upping it.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I've taken down the sidebar link and added a button on both reply and new thread.