Show that the two systems Ax=b RAx=Rb

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the linear systems represented by the matrices A and B, specifically addressing the conditions for consistency of the system Ax=b and the equivalence of the systems Ax=b and RAx=Rb, where R is another matrix. Participants are exploring the implications of row reduction and the null space of matrix B.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the linear system Ax=b is only consistent if b belongs to the null space of B, leading to specific conditions on the parameters a, b, c, and d.
  • Others propose that the row reduction of the augmented matrix reveals relationships between the variables, specifically that b-d-c=0 and a-4d+(3/2)c=0 must hold for the system to be solvable.
  • A participant mentions that the null space of B can be described by the equations 2a-3b+6c-5d=0 and -b+c+d=0, prompting questions about the derivation of these equations.
  • There is a challenge regarding the row reduction results, with one participant stating that their results differ from those presented by others, indicating a potential discrepancy in the row reduction process.
  • Some participants express confusion about the choice of specific values for d and c in the context of generating the spanning space for b.
  • It is noted that if R is a square matrix and has an inverse, multiplying both sides of the equation RAx=Rb by the inverse of R could demonstrate the equivalence of the two systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the row reduction results or the derivation of the null space equations. There are multiple competing views regarding the conditions for consistency and the implications of the row reduction process.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential errors in row reduction steps, assumptions about the forms of the matrices, and the dependence on specific choices of parameters in the discussion of the null space.

orange12
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Hey. Got some troubles with this.

4 1 11
A= 1 3 11
0 2 6
1 1 5


1 -1 2 -2
R= -1 2 -3 2
2 -3 5 -5
-2 2 -5 6

B = 2 -3 6 -5
-2 2 -5 6

1. show that the linear system is Ax=b is only consistent if b € N(B)

2. let b € R4. show that the two systems

Ax=b RAx=Rb

are equivalent

hope somebody can help?
 
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[tex]A= \begin{bmatrix}4& 1& 11 \\ 1& 3& 11 \\ 0& 2& 6 \\1& 1& 5\end{bmatrix}[/tex]


[tex]B= \begin{bmatrix}2 & -3 & 6 & -5 \\-2 & 2 & -5 & 6 \end{bmatrix}[/tex]

Row reduce
[tex]\begin{bmatrix}4& 1& 11 & a\\ 1& 3& 11 & b \\ 0& 2& 6 & c\\1& 1& 5 & d\end{bmatrix}[/tex]
and you will get something like
[tex]\begin{bmatrix}1& 1& 5 & d\\ 0& 2& 6 & c \\ 0& 0 & 0 & b-d-c\\0& 0 & 0 & a- 4d+ \frac{3}{2}c\end{bmatrix}[/tex]
In order that that be solvable we must have b- d- c= 0 and a- 4d+ (3/2)c= 0. Those lead to a= 4d- (3/2)c and b= c+ d so the space of all such b is spanned by <4, 1, 0 1> and <-3, 2, 0, 1> (by taking d=1, c=0 and then d=0, c= 2).

If you row reduce
[tex]\begin{bmatrix}2 & -3 & 6 & -5 & 0 \\-2 & 2 & -5 & 6 & 0 \end{bmatrix}[/tex]
you get something like
[tex]\begin{bmatrix} 2 & - 3 & 6 & -5 \\0 & -1 & 1 & 1\end{bmatrix}[/tex]

The Null space of B is given by <a, b, c, d> with 2a- 3b+ 6c- 5d= 0 and -b+ c+ d= 0.

Show that the solutions to those equations are exactly the space above.

[tex]R= \begin{bmatrix}1 & -1 & 2 & -2 \\ -1 & 2 & -3 & 2 \\ 2 & -3 & 5 & -5\\ -2 & 2 & -5 & 6\end{bmatrix}[/tex]
That is a square matrix so if you can show it has an inverse, all you have to do is multiply, on the left, on both sides of RAx= Rb by the inverse of R!
 
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HallsofIvy said:
[tex]A= \begin{bmatrix}4& 1& 11 \\ 1& 3& 11 \\ 0& 2& 6 \\1& 1& 5\end{bmatrix}[/tex]


[tex]B= \begin{bmatrix}2 & -3 & 6 & -5 \\-2 & 2 & -5 & 6 \end{bmatrix}[/tex]

Row reduce
[tex]\begin{bmatrix}4& 1& 11 & a\\ 1& 3& 11 & b \\ 0& 2& 6 & c\\1& 1& 5 & d\end{bmatrix}[/tex]
and you will get something like
[tex]\begin{bmatrix}1& 1& 5 & d\\ 0& 2& 6 & c \\ 0& 0 & 0 & b-d-c\\0& 0 & 0 & a- 4d+ \frac{3}{2}c\end{bmatrix}[/tex]
In order that that be solvable we must have b- d- c= 0 and a- 4d+ (3/2)c= 0. Those lead to a= 4d- (3/2)c and b= c+ d so the space of all such b is spanned by <4, 1, 0 1> and <-3, 2, 0, 1> (by taking d=1, c=0 and then d=0, c= 2).

If you row reduce
[tex]\begin{bmatrix}2 & -3 & 6 & -5 & 0 \\-2 & 2 & -5 & 6 & 0 \end{bmatrix}[/tex]
you get something like
[tex]\begin{bmatrix} 2 & - 3 & 6 & -5 \\0 & -1 & 1 & 1\end{bmatrix}[/tex]

The Null space of B is given by <a, b, c, d> with 2a- 3b+ 6c- 5d= 0 and -b+ c+ d= 0.

Show that the solutions to those equations are exactly the space above.

[tex]R= \begin{bmatrix}1 & -1 & 2 & -2 \\ -1 & 2 & -3 & 2 \\ 2 & -3 & 5 & -5\\ -2 & 2 & -5 & 6\end{bmatrix}[/tex]
That is a square matrix so if you can show it has an inverse, all you have to do is multiply, on the left, on both sides of RAx= Rb by the inverse of R!

Thx for the help. I can see how a= 4d- (3/2)c and b= c+ d, but why do u choose d=1 c=0 at first, and the d=0 and c=2. And how is The Null space of B is given by <a, b, c, d> with 2a- 3b+ 6c- 5d= 0 and -b+ c+ d= 0. I can't seem to figure this part out, but i understand the answer to part two. Hope u don't mind taking another look, thanks again.
 


If I row reduce to reduced echelon form with the total matrix [B 0 ] I do not get the same as u get. I get it to be:

1 0 3/2 -4 0
0 1 -1 -1 0
 

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