Solving a Nodal Analysis: Find Va(t)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving for the voltage Va(t) using nodal analysis in an electrical circuit. Participants explore the formulation of nodal equations, the implications of complex impedances, and the correctness of calculated values.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the impedance of the capacitor is always negative, referencing instructor notes.
  • Some participants assert that Node1 and Node2 represent a single node due to their connection by a wire of perfect conductivity.
  • There are multiple calculations for Va, with one participant obtaining Va = 4528.6 - 911.4i, while others express skepticism about this value being excessively high.
  • Participants suggest showing work to identify potential errors in calculations, with one proposing the use of variables for branch impedances and currents to simplify the process.
  • There is a discussion about the correct representation of complex constants in mathematical software, with suggestions to ensure proper syntax to avoid errors.
  • One participant corrects their earlier output, indicating a misreading of their results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the calculated values for Va, with multiple competing results and skepticism about the high voltage obtained by one participant.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the assumptions made in the nodal equations and potential errors in the calculations due to the representation of complex numbers.

eehelp150
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Homework Statement


Find Va(t) using Nodal Analysis:
kdLLqv9.png


Homework Equations


Zc = 1/(jwC)
Zl = jw*L

The Attempt at a Solution


W = 250
Z36mH = j9 ohm
Z80mH = j20 ohm
Z0.25mF = -j16 ohm (is capacitor impedance always negative? It says so in my instructor's notes but I forgot why)

20cos(250t) -> 20 <0° V
1.2cos(250t+45°) -> 1.2<45° A

Are the following Nodal equations correct? Is Node1 simply Va?
Node1:
\frac{Node1-20&lt;0}{8+9j} + \frac{Node1}{-j16}=0

Node2:
-1.2&lt;45° + \frac{Node2-4Va}{j20}=0
 
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Node1 and Node2 are just one node. Nodes are not defined by black dots. Those two dots are connected by a wire of perfect conductivity and the voltages at the two dots are the same, so they are really only one node.
 
The Electrician said:
Node1 and Node2 are just one node. Nodes are not defined by black dots. Those two dots are connected by a wire of perfect conductivity and the voltages at the two dots are the same, so they are really only one node.
I assume Va is the voltage across the Capacitor?
 
Last edited:
That looks OK; now all you have to do is solve for Va.

By the way, the reason that capacitor impedance is negative is because 1/j = -j
 
The Electrician said:
That looks OK; now all you have to do is solve for Va.

By the way, the reason that capacitor impedance is negative is because 1/j = -j
Of course. I feel like an idiot now.
 
The Electrician said:
That looks OK; now all you have to do is solve for Va.

By the way, the reason that capacitor impedance is negative is because 1/j = -j
I ended up getting
Va = 4528.6 - 911.4i
Is that correct?
 
No, I don't get that. As a sanity check, for Va to be 4000 volts plus seems a little high to me.

What happened to your equation in post #3?

If you'll show your work, we can probably find your error.
 
The Electrician said:
No, I don't get that. As a sanity check, for Va to be 4000 volts plus seems a little high to me.

What happened to your equation in post #3?

If you'll show your work, we can probably find your error.
Don't know what happened to it

I plugged the equation into MyAlgebra.com and it spit out the answer. Here is the equation again:
\frac{Va-20}{8+j9}-\frac{Va}{j16}-\frac{3Va}{j20} = \frac{1.2\sqrt{2}}{2}+ \frac{1.2\sqrt{2}}{2}i
 
eehelp150 said:
I ended up getting
Va = 4528.6 - 911.4i
Is that correct?
It's not what I get, if that helps :smile:
 
  • #10
gneill said:
It's not what I get, if that helps :smile:
I tried another calculator and got:
1.89293-12.2816 i
is that correct?
 
  • #11
eehelp150 said:
I tried another calculator and got:
0.848528+0.848528 i
is that correct?
Nope.

Sometimes plugging in all the complex values into a node equation and lugging them around in the reduction is more tedious and error prone than using symbols. Why not assign variables to the branch impedances and the current and solve? That way we can follow your steps.
 
  • #12
gneill said:
Nope.

Sometimes plugging in all the complex values into a node equation and lugging them around in the reduction is more tedious and error prone than using symbols. Why not assign variables to the branch impedances and the current and solve? That way we can follow your steps.
I read the output wrong, it was 1.89293-12.2816 i.
 
  • #13
eehelp150 said:
Don't know what happened to it

I plugged the equation into MyAlgebra.com and it spit out the answer. Here is the equation again:
\frac{Va-20}{8+j9}-\frac{Va}{j16}-\frac{3Va}{j20} = \frac{1.2\sqrt{2}}{2}+ \frac{1.2\sqrt{2}}{2}i

I think you may be having a problem with your complex constant j. In Mathematica there is a difference between j9 and j 9.

Without a space between the j and the 9 (in other words, like this j9), Mathematica treats that as a variable name. With a space, like j 9, that is treated like j*9, the product of j and 9. Also at the very end of your equation you have i instead of j.

What does MyAlgebra use for the complex constant, j or i? Whichever it is, put the right one in your equation and instead of j9 and j20, etc., put j*9 and j*20 (or possibly i*9 and i*20 if i is the symbol for the complex constant) and run the equation again.
 
  • #14
The Electrician said:
I think you may be having a problem with your complex constant j. In Mathematica there is a difference between j9 and j 9.

Without a space between the j and the 9 (in other words, like this j9), Mathematica treats that as a variable name. With a space, like j 9, that is treated like j*9, the product of j and 9. Also at the very end of your equation you have i instead of j.

What does MyAlgebra use for the complex constant, j or i? Whichever it is, put the right one in your equation and instead of j9 and j20, etc., put j*9 and j*20 (or possibly i*9 and i*20 if i is the symbol for the complex constant) and run the equation again.
upload_2016-10-13_3-3-31.jpeg
 
  • #15
eehelp150 said:
I read the output wrong, it was 1.89293-12.2816 i.
This is correct.
 

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