Space Bending: Questions Answered

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    Bending Space
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of space and spacetime curvature in relation to matter and energy. Participants explore concepts of flatness, curvature, and the implications of motion within a four-dimensional framework, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects of general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that space is flat and bends in the presence of matter, questioning the energy dynamics involved in this curvature.
  • Others clarify that spacetime curvature is influenced by the stress-energy tensor and that curvature changes with the distribution of matter and energy.
  • There is a claim that when matter moves, the space at the original location returns to flatness, with some arguing that this is not accurate as spacetime does not simply revert to a previous state.
  • One participant suggests that no energy is required to return space to flatness, while another counters that energy can be transferred in extreme cases like black hole mergers.
  • Some participants discuss the relative motion of objects and how it affects their experience of spacetime geometry, while others challenge this view, stating that curvature is a consistent geometric property regardless of the observer's motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of spacetime curvature, the implications of motion, and the energy dynamics involved. There is no consensus on several key points, particularly regarding the interpretation of curvature and the effects of relative motion.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific interpretations of spacetime and curvature, which may vary based on definitions and assumptions. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical and conceptual nuances.

UfoPilot
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please help me understand this, space is flat. space bends when its near matter. When matter moves from point A to point B, the space at point A returns to being flat. Where does the energy come from to bend the space back to flat come from? Why doesn't the space at point A stay bent?
 
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UfoPilot said:
please help me understand this, space is flat.
The geometry of space-time curvature would indeed be flat if no energy was present anywhere.
UfoPilot said:
space bends when its near matter
This geometry indeed change with respect to the many component of that matter/energy (See stress energy tensor)

UfoPilot said:
When matter moves from point A to point B, the space at point A returns to being flat.
That's correct, the curvature is mostly dependent on distance.

UfoPilot said:
Where does the energy come from to bend the space back to flat come from?
No energy is used to affect that curvature. Only in very extreme cases (like black holes merging) some energy is indeed transferred to that curvature and in the forms of gravitational waves.

UfoPilot said:
Why doesn't the space at point A stay bent?
For the same reason it was flat in the first place.
Also, that curvature is different for every object depending on their relative motion. For example take a snapshot of two identical satellite nearly at the same point in space. If one is going at great speed horizontally, it will "follow" and orbital (but also free fall) geometry. If one is dropped at zero velocity there (also with respect to earth) it will make the apple free fall dive. So despite (nearly) being at the same place (in space), they both will experience a totally different (4 dimensional) geometry (Nothing happens to space itself).

That's why it is also said that in GR space time curvature guide object into free fall along their "straight line" geodesics
 
UfoPilot said:
space is flat

What "space" are you talking about? Are you talking about our universe as a whole? That is spatially flat, yes (according to your best current model). But "space" without qualification is too vague.

UfoPilot said:
space bends when its near matter.

No, spacetime is curved when matter and energy is present. Spacetime is not the same thing as space.

UfoPilot said:
When matter moves from point A to point B, the space at point A returns to being flat.

No; when matter moves from point A to point B, spacetime is more curved in the 4-dimensional region that includes the "world tube" between A and B that the matter occupies, and less curved far away from that region. Nothing "returns to being flat"; spacetime, as a 4-dimensional manifold, does not "change", it just is. What we think of as "change" in our everyday world, in the 4-d spacetime model is just the geometry being different in some regions vs. others.

UfoPilot said:
Where does the energy come from to bend the space back to flat come from?

It doesn't have to come from anywhere. See above.
 
Boing3000 said:
that curvature is different for every object depending on their relative motion.

This is not true. The Riemann curvature tensor, which describes spacetime curvature, is a tensor, i.e., a covariant geometric object. It is the same tensor for every observer, whatever their state of motion.

Boing3000 said:
take a snapshot of two identical satellite nearly at the same point in space. If one is going at great speed horizontally, it will "follow" and orbital (but also free fall) geometry. If one is dropped at zero velocity there (also with respect to earth) it will make the apple free fall dive. So despite (nearly) being at the same place (in space), they both will experience a totally different (4 dimensional) geometry

This is not correct. Both satellites are moving through the same 4-d geometry. They are just moving on different geodesics in that same 4-d geometry.
 

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