Structure of a gravitational wave?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the structure and characteristics of gravitational waves (GWs) in comparison to electromagnetic (EM) waves. Participants explore the analogy between the two types of waves, particularly focusing on the components that would be necessary for gravitational waves to propagate similarly to electromagnetic waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions what orthogonal components would be necessary for gravitational waves to radiate, drawing a parallel to the relationship between electric and magnetic fields in EM waves.
  • Another participant suggests that the analogy between EM waves and gravitational waves is not as close as initially thought, noting that gravitational waves do not have two different orthogonal fields like EM waves do.
  • It is mentioned that in gravitational waves, contraction along one transverse axis requires expansion along another, which is somewhat analogous to the push-pull relationship in electromagnetism.
  • One participant clarifies that the wave equation in general relativity (GR) differs from Maxwell's equations, indicating a fundamental difference in the structure of the two theories.
  • A later reply acknowledges the correction regarding the phase relationship of electric and magnetic fields in EM waves and proposes that gravity and momentum could serve as the orthogonal components for gravitational waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the analogy between gravitational waves and electromagnetic waves, with no consensus reached on the nature of the components necessary for gravitational wave propagation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the analogy may hold in weak-field scenarios, but the discussion remains open regarding the exact nature of the components involved in gravitational wave propagation.

ClamShell
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Questions concerning GW's are very common on PF,
but I think I have a new question on the concept.

Maxwell explains that EM waves(photons) propagate
in space due to a relationship between the sinusoidal
representations of the electric and magnetic fields
of the wave. Namely that these two sinusoids are
orthogonal and 90 degrees out of phase (if memory
serves). Kind of a push-pull relationship. IE, if these
components are not present there is no propagation
of the EM wave into space.

My question is that if EM waves are analogous to
to Gravitational Waves, what would be the orthogonal
components that would force the GW's to radiate
according to Maxwell's explanation of EM waves?

Without orthogonal components would not the GW
be stationary?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You may like to read about http://arxiv.org/abs/0908.1326" - in section 2 it is explained how for weak fields gravity can be treated, in some respect, in a similar way as electromagnetism.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ClamShell said:
Namely that these two sinusoids are
orthogonal and 90 degrees out of phase (if memory
serves).
They're in phase.

ClamShell said:
My question is that if EM waves are analogous to
to Gravitational Waves, what would be the orthogonal
components that would force the GW's to radiate
according to Maxwell's explanation of EM waves?

Without orthogonal components would not the GW
be stationary?
The analogy isn't as close as you're thinking; in a gravitational wave there are not two different fields that are orthogonal to one another. The wave equation of GR is the Einstein field equations, which don't have the same structure as Maxwell's equations. There is something somewhat similar to the "push-pull" in GR, which is that contraction along one transverse axis requires expansion along the other transverse axis axis; this is because the Einstein field equations in vacuum are basically statements of conservation of the volume of a cloud of test particles.

One thing that is similar about the two is that in both cases, the vibrations are transverse. (In the case of gravitational waves, this is only strictly true in the far-field limit.) In the GR case, this is because a purely longitudinal plane wave propagating along the x-axis would be equivalent to a change of coordinates [itex]x \rightarrow x'(x,t)[/itex], which can't mean anything in GR because GR is completely invariant under any smooth change of coordinates.

One way to see that GR can't be strictly analogous to EM is that in the EM case you have two planes of polarization, like | and -, whereas in the GR case you have polarizations that look like + and x.

[EDIT] Arkajad makes a good point about the analogy in the weak-field case.
 
Last edited:
bcrowell said:
The analogy isn't as close as you're thinking; in a gravitational wave there are not two different fields that are orthogonal to one another. The wave equation of GR is the Einstein field equations, which don't have the same structure as Maxwell's equations. There is something somewhat similar to the "push-pull" in GR, which is that contraction along one transverse axis requires expansion along the other transverse axis axis; this is because the Einstein field equations in vacuum are basically statements of conservation of the volume of a cloud of test particles.

Thanks for pointing out that E & B are in phase for EM waves. What I had hoped,
was that for GW's the orthogonal fields would be gravity and momentum. Thanks
for the eye-opener.
 

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